What's with the Paranoia?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by fabricalado

I don't see how one excludes the other. Like it's been said here, you don't buy a cellphone plan because you consider the company totally reliable; in most cases, we do this on a daily basis simply because the majority of us do not read the terms of service. Heck, if you install a simple app that's the same logic, and I don't think I've ever read most of the ToS for my apps.

Also, you can still buy an ereader without having checked the company's background simply because
a)other people inspired/urged you to do it
b)you want to read ebooks.

We don't always behave rationally, but we can come up with reasons after the fact. Doesn't change the fact that trust in the company may not be the main reason you decide to get a product.

So you don't look into the company who's Reader you want to buy. Then why not register? If you don't register, then you know enough about the company to not trust them.

I would not want to buy a Reader from a company that would cause me not to register. I want all the available features to work.

[gmw]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

[...] I would not want to buy a Reader from a company that would cause me not to register. I want all the available features to work.

When there is a feature or benefit that I actually want that requires me to be registered then I consider registering, but when there isn't I don't.

For me it's all part of a general principle of minimal sharing in these situations: do they need to know? (And if they don't need to know then why the <bleeeeeep> are they asking?*) It's like the many and varied places that want your date of birth. Unless there is some strong reason otherwise I don't even bother researching for trust, I just don't give it, and if they insist I lie (it becomes just another "secret" for that site/company like my password).

Maybe this is paranoia, or maybe it's just a matter of trying to maintain habits that are good for security, along with regular backups and not clicking on unsolicited links (unless operating in a sandbox that I do trust).

Speaking of unsolicited links , here's one: Have I Been Pwned in which you can discover if your email address was found in various reported privacy breaches. (If you're concerned about the page, research it independently before using it.) Of course my decades old email address appears many times, but it's reassuring to think that they got minimal useful data other than the email address itself. And keep in mind some of these breaches are big companies - Sony, Adobe - that we'd most likely be incline to trust to at least some extent. The point of a site like that, as far as I am concerned, is to show it is a matter of when, not if, the data you share will be compromised.


* These days the disturbing answer to "why are they asking" is very often: because everyone does it. In theory its used for targeted marketing, but I've seen how this data is most often used in practice and mostly it sits around waiting to be hacked. And anyway, marketing doesn't need a precise date of birth, nor a precise address - age ranges and postcodes are enough for marketing purposes. As for the "security" purpose associated with giving my date of birth ... wait for me to stop choking. When companies learn to ask what they actually need to know for legitimate purposes then I might stop lying to them ... maybe .

[Thasaidon]

Originally Posted by gmw

When there is a feature or benefit that I actually want that requires me to be registered then I consider registering, but when there isn't I don't.

For me it's all part of a general principle of minimal sharing in these situations: do they need to know? (And if they don't need to know then why the <bleeeeeep> are they asking?*) It's like the many and varied places that want your date of birth. Unless there is some strong reason otherwise I don't even bother researching for trust, I just don't give it, and if they insist I lie (it becomes just another "secret" for that site/company like my password).

Maybe this is paranoia, or maybe it's just a matter of trying to maintain habits that are good for security, along with regular backups and not clicking on unsolicited links (unless operating in a sandbox that I do trust).

Speaking of unsolicited links , here's one: Have I Been Pwned in which you can discover if your email address was found in various reported privacy breaches. (If you're concerned about the page, research it independently before using it.) Of course my decades old email address appears many times, but it's reassuring to think that they got minimal useful data other than the email address itself. And keep in mind some of these breeches are big companies - Sony, Adobe - that we'd most likely be incline to trust to at least some extent. The point of a site like that, as far as I am concerned, is to show it is a matter of when, not if, the data you share will be compromised.


* These days the disturbing answer to "why are they asking" is very often: because everyone does it. In theory its used for targeted marketing, but I've seen how this data is most often used in practice and mostly it sits around waiting to be hacked. And anyway, marketing doesn't need a precise date of birth, nor a precise address - age ranges and postcodes are enough for marketing purposes. As for the "security" purpose associated with giving my date of birth ... wait for me to stop choking. When companies learn to ask what they actually need to know for legitimate purposes then I might stop lying to them ... maybe .

That sounds like good sense to me.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by gmw

Speaking of unsolicited links , here's one: Have I Been Pwned in which you can discover if your email address was found in various reported privacy breaches. (If you're concerned about the page, research it independently before using it.) Of course my decades old email address appears many times, but it's reassuring to think that they got minimal useful data other than the email address itself. And keep in mind some of these breeches are big companies - Sony, Adobe - that we'd most likely be incline to trust to at least some extent. The point of a site like that, as far as I am concerned, is to show it is a matter of when, not if, the data you share will be compromised.

I have looked at such sites before to see about my email and data breaches. I've never seen Amazon or Kobo on any such list.

[gmw]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I have looked at such sites before to see about my email and data breaches. I've never seen Amazon or Kobo on any such list.

My immediate reaction to that is: yet.

But another point to make about the link I posted above is that it is able to report only about breaches* that came into public knowledge and where that exposed data allowed creation of relevant search databases.

I am not aware of any major breaches from Amazon themselves, although I have seen some from companies using AWS. But just because they did not become public does not mean they have never happened.


* I know you all quoted my earlier typo just to embarrass me

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by gmw

My immediate reaction to that is: yet.

I've had an account with Amazon since before eInk Readers existed. I've had an account with Kobo for 8 or 9 years. I think that's a rather good track record for both.

But another point to make about the link I posted above is that it is able to report only about breaches* that came into public knowledge and where that exposed data allowed creation of relevant search databases.

I am not aware of any major breaches from Amazon themselves, although I have seen some from companies using AWS. But just because they did not become public does not mean they have never happened.

If Amazon was hacked, it would be reported and we'd know about it. I just cannot see Amazon keeping that private. AWS is different because those are not Amazon's websites getting hacked.

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

If Amazon was hacked, it would be reported and we'd know about it.

They leak on their own without needing to be hacked.

https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...e-black-friday

And they have had rogue employees.

https://www.computerweekly.com/news/...insider-breach

[fabricalado]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

If you don't register, then you know enough about the company to not trust them.

So, do you know enough about your cellphone company or your bank that you'd agree if they told you they were going to do whatever they wanted with your information? I surely don't.
Do I worry about that? Yeah, specially when I read about hacks or get personalized ads on my newsfeed.
Do I have enough time and willpower available to go out of my way to find out exactly what every company I give my money and attention is doing with my personal information? Not really.

And again, I don't think it's just surveillance paranoia. For me, it's that Amazon as a company is profitable enough as is, and I don't feel like freely giving my information to them.

It's weird that this needs to be stated, but my personal reading habits are, by definition, private. Even if I decide to let others know about them, that should still come from a place of choice, rather than because a wordy ToS tricked me into giving them away in order for others to profit from my taste.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I would not want to buy a Reader from a company that would cause me not to register. I want all the available features to work.

And it's your absolute right to want that!
What doesn't sound fair to me is to assume that, because you believe this, that gives you the right to insult others by calling them paranoid.
As shown here in this thread, there's more than mere paranoia at play, even if you refuse to admit it.

Think for a second: how would you feel if I created a thread saying "Gee, what's up with all these people who register their readers? What's with the stupidity?"

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by fabricalado

So, do you know enough about your cellphone company or your bank that you'd agree if they told you they were going to do whatever they wanted with your information? I surely don't. Do I worry about that? Yeah, specially when I read about hacks or get personalized ads on my newsfeed.

Do I have enough time and willpower available to go out of my way to find out exactly what every company I give my money and attention is doing with my personal information? Not really.

And again, I don't think it's just surveillance paranoia. For me, it's that Amazon as a company is profitable enough as is, and I don't feel like freely giving my information to them.

It's weird that this needs to be stated, but my personal reading habits are, by definition, private. Even if I decide to let others know about them, that should still come from a place of choice, rather than because a wordy ToS tricked me into giving them away in order for others to profit from my taste.

Where do you buy eBooks? Do you buy using a credit card or bank card? If you do, then it's no real difference to registering.

I would not be happy if my bank or cell phone service provider said they were going to do whatever they wanted with my data. But they don't do that.

Thing is, there comes a time when we have to give our information no matter how we feel about the company involved. It's either that are don't do business with them and we may not have that choice. For example, there are a lot of people who think Comcast is the devil but they don't have a choice. It's either that do without hi-speed Internet.

If you buy eBooks from Amazon and pay using a credit or bank card but do not register, then (IMHO) that's hypocritical. Same goes for Kobo, B&N, Tolino, etc.

[harriska2]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Given your usage, I would think registering and keeping WiFi off would do. But if you don't like the firmware updates, why buy a Kindle when you can get better Readers such as Kobo or Pocketbook?

Because they cost more than $89 new which include a backlight and flat front panel? Again, why do you care what I do/don't do? I informed myself, I looked at the specs, I purchased years ago, I upgraded a year or so ago, and have no issues. Is the problem that you don't believe me? I gave a litany of reasons.

[harriska2]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

One reason to register a Kindle is that if you buy eBooks form Amazon, you can use the download feature to download your eBooks and remove the DRM. You cannot do that if you are not registered.

I am not registered on my Kindle eink reader. I purchase books on amazon.com and download on my pc. I then put the books into Calibre, thus removing the DRM. I finally sideload the book into my Kindle eink reader. Again, not registered on the Kindle so I'm not sure what you are talking about.

[Quoth]

Then you must have a PC Kindle Reader Registered. Which is certainly less private than registering the physical Kindle. Also, unless it's totally ancient, you can't create collections on an unregistered Kindle. There is no point in not registering one if you have an Amazon account to buy ebooks anyway. Also not all OSes support the Kindle Application.

I only download to PC too, but I have no Amazon software at all on the PC. The plugin on Calibre has the kindle serial number, which doesn't work unless the ebook was bought for that registered Kindle. Though some Amazon ebooks don't have DRM unless you let them deliver KFX, which illegally adds DRM to books a publisher requested as DRM free.

[hildea]

Someone I know got their Kindle locked or something (not sure exactly what happened, but they lost access to all their books) while on a cruise. Somehow, their use of the Kindle had triggered some kind of fraud criteria (maybe buying a book while traveling abroad?). They got it sorted out when they came home, but for the rest of their holiday, they had to make do with whatever books they could find in a language they could read onboard and in seaside bookshops. I would assume that not registering their Kindle, and not depending on the Kindle cloud library, would have prevented this from happening.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Then you must have a PC Kindle Reader Registered. Which is certainly less private than registering the physical Kindle. Also, unless it's totally ancient, you can't create collections on an unregistered Kindle. There is no point in not registering one if you have an Amazon account to buy ebooks anyway. Also not all OSes support the Kindle Application.

I only download to PC too, but I have no Amazon software at all on the PC. The plugin on Calibre has the kindle serial number, which doesn't work unless the ebook was bought for that registered Kindle. Though some Amazon ebooks don't have DRM unless you let them deliver KFX, which illegally adds DRM to books a publisher requested as DRM free.

By having the Kindle registered, there's no risk of the version of KindleForPC that's in use no longer working and you having o upgrade to a version that no longer works with the DeDRM plugin. And it's easier to download Kindle eBooks when you are not at the computer that has K4PC installed.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by hildea

Someone I know got their Kindle locked or something (not sure exactly what happened, but they lost access to all their books) while on a cruise. Somehow, their use of the Kindle had triggered some kind of fraud criteria (maybe buying a book while traveling abroad?). They got it sorted out when they came home, but for the rest of their holiday, they had to make do with whatever books they could find in a language they could read onboard and in seaside bookshops. I would assume that not registering their Kindle, and not depending on the Kindle cloud library, would have prevented this from happening.

That doesn't make sense. I've bought eBooks from Amazon when out of the country. Granted at the time I didn't have a Kindle and I only had K4PC.