Cost of eBooks vs dead-tree books

[ottdmk]

Amazon is most definitely not a monopoly. However, before Apple convinced the publishers to move to an Agency pricing model for ebooks, Amazon was definitely in danger of becoming a monopsony in the ebook space.

Amazon's entire business model is based on increasing their market share until there is basically no-one else left in the market. Once they become the only market (or, the only market that really counts), they are able to extract price concessions from their suppliers. I believe Wal-Mart has followed a similar strategy for decades. (In a wholesale business model, retailers are the market as far as suppliers are concerned.)

[Uncle Robin]

Originally Posted by DNSB

In the last 2.5 years, I've seen Kobo hardware on sale on several occasions though mostly on the low end devices. Heck, I've even received emails from Kobo and Chapters/Indigo about sales on Kobo devices.

That's why I was careful to specify that it was my personal experience from the Kobo Store I have access to. I have had access to Kobo Italia as well for nearly 6 months now, it will be interesting to see if that store ever offers hardware discounts to me.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by DNSB

I often wonder why the "free" cellular internet involves a higher price. An extra $70 on a $170 device (Paperwhite 4 32gb Cdn dollars on amazon.ca) is not what I would call free. The 8GB Paperwhite 4 or Oasis 3 do not offer that option though for some odd reason, the Paperwhite page refers to WiFi and WAN while the Oasis 3 page refers to Wifi and WiFi + Free Cellular Connectivity.

Pricing (Cdn)    Wifi        Wifi+Cellular
Paperwhite 8GB   $139.99     not available
Paperwhite 32GB  $169.99     $239.99
Oasis 3 8GB      $329.99     not available
Oasis 3 32GB     $359.99     $429.99

So if you own that Paperwhite for 3 years, you are paying less than $2 per month for cellular internet access. Yes, the internet access is crippled, but it still works to download books and documents from the cloud, and wikipedia lookups work as does the translation feature. Amazon had to cripple the access due to people hacking their Kindles so that they could tether them to computers and surf the web.

Shari

[Uncle Robin]

Originally Posted by shalym

So if you own that Paperwhite for 3 years, you are paying less than $2 per month for cellular internet access.
Shari

Less than $2 per month is still not "free". It may indeed be a very reasonable deal, not exorbitant at all, but it is not free. I read the original comment as making that point - paying ANY extra makes the claim that the access is "free" invalid.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by Uncle Robin

Less than $2 per month is still not "free". It may indeed be a very reasonable deal, not exorbitant at all, but it is not free. I read the original comment as making that point - paying ANY extra makes the claim that the access is "free" invalid.

Ok...you've got me there. Remember, though, that you're also paying for the cellular radio, so it's actually much less than $2 per month over 3 years. The longer you own the device, the lower the per month charge is. So yes...while it's not technically "free", I'd like to know where you can get even crippled cellular access for that cheap.

Shari

[Uncle Robin]

Originally Posted by shalym

Ok...you've got me there. Remember, though, that you're also paying for the cellular radio, so it's actually much less than $2 per month over 3 years. The longer you own the device, the lower the per month charge is. So yes...while it's not technically "free", I'd like to know where you can get even crippled cellular access for that cheap.

Shari

NONE of that is the point, nor is ANYONE arguing that. The point is simple. It is that Amazon advertises it as FREE cellular access, and it is not. There is no argument about whether it's good value.
The point is simply that it is advertised as "free" - it is not advertised using "low cost", "exceptional value" or any other descriptors that may well be true. It is advertised as free. Which is not true.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by ottdmk

Amazon is most definitely not a monopoly. However, before Apple convinced the publishers to move to an Agency pricing model for ebooks, Amazon was definitely in danger of becoming a monopsony in the ebook space.

Amazon's entire business model is based on increasing their market share until there is basically no-one else left in the market. Once they become the only market (or, the only market that really counts), they are able to extract price concessions from their suppliers. I believe Wal-Mart has followed a similar strategy for decades. (In a wholesale business model, retailers are the market as far as suppliers are concerned.)

Before Apple and the price fix six got together, there were more eBook stores. I did buy a lot of eBooks from Fictionwise and Books-on-Board. Now that Apple and the price fix six did their dirty deed, they've eliminated these stores so there is less competition to Amazon. They did the opposite to what they were trying to do.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Uncle Robin

Less than $2 per month is still not "free". It may indeed be a very reasonable deal, not exorbitant at all, but it is not free. I read the original comment as making that point - paying ANY extra makes the claim that the access is "free" invalid.

It'sthe same as you buying the phone and the cell service being free.

[Uncle Robin]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

It'sthe same as you buying the phone and the cell service being free.

Not quite. There is a difference in price shown for the devices with the cellular access, and those without. A difference of $70 in the example originally cited. To charge $70 extra for an additional feature means that additional feature is not free. It's not even "at no extra cost", or "cost includes" which is the more honest way of describing the sort of cellphone package you describe.

[DiapDealer]

Getting a little nitpicky in my opinion. Since I know of no cellular service that doesn't have some sort of recurring costs (monthly, quartertly, yearly--whathaveyou), I'm perfectly fine with them claiming "free cellular access". The initial cost is for the cellular radio in the device and not the access.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Uncle Robin

Not quite. There is a difference in price shown for the devices with the cellular access, and those without. A difference of $70 in the example originally cited. To charge $70 extra for an additional feature means that additional feature is not free. It's not even "at no extra cost", or "cost includes" which is the more honest way of describing the sort of cellphone package you describe.

It's exactly the same thing. Amazon is charging for the hardware and not the cell service.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by shalym

So if you own that Paperwhite for 3 years, you are paying less than $2 per month for cellular internet access. Yes, the internet access is crippled, but it still works to download books and documents from the cloud, and wikipedia lookups work as does the translation feature. Amazon had to cripple the access due to people hacking their Kindles so that they could tether them to computers and surf the web.

Shari

It appears that you are defending Amazon's statement that for only $70, you get a free WAN connection. Your definition of free is very different from mine. It appears you consider $2 per month as being equivalent to free whereas to me, free means no additional cost.

[John F]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Getting a little nitpicky in my opinion. Since I know of no cellular service that doesn't have some sort of recurring costs (monthly, quartertly, yearly--whathaveyou), I'm perfectly fine with them claiming "free cellular access". The initial cost is for the cellular radio in the device and not the access.

+1

I'm not going to nitpick their definition of "access" when I know what they mean.

Now if someone wants to argue that the cellular service isn't "free" ...

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Before Apple and the price fix six got together, there were more eBook stores. I did buy a lot of eBooks from Fictionwise and Books-on-Board. Now that Apple and the price fix six did their dirty deed, they've eliminated these stores so there is less competition to Amazon. They did the opposite to what they were trying to do.

You keep pushing that narrative, even though those ebook stores either folded their tent or sold themselves to B&N well before Apple got involved, but I guess facts don't matter. Apple didn't eliminate any stores. Amazon was the store that had between 80% and 90% of the market, not Apple.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

You keep pushing that narrative, even though those ebook stores either folded their tent or sold themselves to B&N well before Apple got involved, but I guess facts don't matter. Apple didn't eliminate any stores. Amazon was the store that had between 80% and 90% of the market, not Apple.

Apple and the Price Fix Six did cause eBook stores to go under. Fictionwise was doing well with the business model they had and because of agency pricing, their business model had to go and then they became nothing special and sales tanked. Same with Books-on-Board. SO yes, Apple did cause these shops to go under.

There were others as well. What made each shop different was taken away. It means no more clubs, no more discounts, no more buy one get one free and so forth.

So please stop trying to say Apple and the Price Fix Six where not complicit when they 100% were.