Ethics and legalities of format shifting

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by davidfor

Yes it is. YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR ACTIONS. You are responsible for everything you say. We all are responsible for our actions and what we say. You are deliberately using emotive terms rather than just discuss the issue. You are deliberately repeating the accusation to upset people. There is no other reason to do that.

Yes, I am responsible for what I enter in Google Translate, but only partially for what Google Translate makes of it.
But I am certainly not responsible for how these words are received by the reader and what they trigger in him.

I find it even funnier than the reactions to my deDRM rejection that no one has commented on the fact that DRM also offers protection for the user.

That shows me very clearly the views on the rights of the users represented here in the thread. But that's again my view of things.

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

I find it even funnier than the reactions to my deDRM rejection that no one has commented on the fact that DRM also offers protection for the user.

My understanding of your argument is that DRM protects the user from being falsely accused of uploading books to pirate sites. That might be the case if the DRM could be shown to be unbreakable, but that is not the reality of the situation.

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by jhowell

My understanding of your argument is that DRM protects the user from being falsely accused of uploading books to pirate sites. That might be the case if the DRM could be shown to be unbreakable, but that is not the reality of the situation.

Only old Amazon DRM can be removed with the device serial number. Kfx, Adobe DRM, CARE is safe.

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

Only old Amazon DRM can be removed with the device serial number. Kfx, Adobe DRM, CARE is safe.

Any DRM scheme can be broken. Those who profit from e-book piracy may have developed DRM removal techniques that they keep to themselves to avoid their being thwarted.

It seems to me that you are only at risk of being accused of piracy in the first place because of the personally identifying information, such as watermarks, that are part of the DRM.

[John F]

Only old Amazon DRM can be removed with the device serial number. Kfx, Adobe DRM, CARE is safe.

For those who want to strip DRM from their ebooks, I wouldn't take the above post seriously.

[binaryhermit]

Originally Posted by jhowell

It seems to me that you are only at risk of being accused of piracy in the first place because of the personally identifying information, such as watermarks, that are part of the DRM.

And in some cases the "watermarking" in DRM-free content is only designed to identify the retailer that sold the file, IIRC some drm-free music is or was watermarked that way

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by John F

For those who want to strip DRM from their ebooks, I wouldn't take the above post seriously.

It is, dare I say, remarkably ignorant. The only book format I've run across that hasn't been cracked is Sony's old LRX and rumor has it that was broken but the code was never released. Sony, of course, switched from LRX to standard Adobe DRM for ePub which had already been cracked before Sony switched.

It's been well known that the analog hole is the easiest way to get around any DRM issue. From that stand point, most ebook DRM is oriented towards inconveniencing the casual user, i.e. making it so that Aunt Gertrude can't give copies of her eBooks to the members of her book club.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by jhowell

Any DRM scheme can be broken. Those who profit from e-book piracy may have developed DRM removal techniques that they keep to themselves to avoid their being thwarted.

It seems to me that you are only at risk of being accused of piracy in the first place because of the personally identifying information, such as watermarks, that are part of the DRM.

Heck, those who profit from e-book piracy simply scan a paper copy of the book. People have been doing that for more than 20 years.

[binaryhermit]

Or turn pages on an ereader and take pictures of each page...

(This could be automated in a hacky way if one had the desire)

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by binaryhermit

Or turn pages on an ereader and take pictures of each page...

(This could be automated in a hacky way if one had the desire)

There is a YouTube video of it.

Video is even easier now.

Streaming content is trivial.

But yes, the Advance Review Copies (ARCs) on paper are pirated and made into ebooks. Certainly for the popular authors.

It's not winning the Booker or a Hugo that tells you that you are famous, but quality ebooks out before the publisher releases one.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

The thread is about the "Ethics and legalities of format shifting".

Most of us are talking about the former, while you are talking solely about the latter, which is why the conversation is not achieving anything.

Yes, where I live format shifting is not legal. I do not think it is unethical.

And indeed what are the qualifications in Intellectual Property law and experience of the court cases of the person insisting that Format shifting or DRM removal are illegal?

Even where Format Shifting is technically illegal, it dishonestly misleading and malicious to suggest it's theft or a criminal action that will involve court. The rights holders and the law is only concerned with practical violation, that's redistribution.

The big issue is piracy, that's ACTUAL unauthorised redistribution of content (TV, Streaming, DVD, LP, VHS, Cassette, SD card, BD, files of video, audio, books etc). Proven cases. Not hypothetical possibilities.

People have been stabbed with sharp kitchen knives. I won't be arrested and interrogated unless there is a connection to the victim. Similarly it has to be actually proven there is a possible connection to Piracy, such as my IP address at the time and date it was issued to me, being logged uploading content. Making sure too that there is no mistake on the time zone, as was the case for a Spanish person acquitted.

Having bought the ebook for your own Kindle and being found with it on your Kobo is not something someone is going to be prosecuted for.
Discovering that your IP, when it was registered to you and that is regularly used to upload copyright content (not to private user only cloud storage), then you are in trouble.
The damages (the fine) will be the estimated or guessed number of downloads since the upload times the retail price plus costs.

BTW, you must not redistribute copies of any copyright work even if it was a free offer and has no DRM.

[binaryhermit]

Are those actual "pirating ebooks via the analog hole to defeat DRM?" videos?

All I see with a quick search is doing it via using a robot to turn pages in a dead tree book and taking pictures of the pages. (Although I swear I've seen a post regarding doing it for ebooks)

(Though for an ereader with buttons you could just have the robot press the button rather than flipping pages, it should be easier than the more complicated action of turning a page in a paper book)

EDIT: I was right https://www.mhpbooks.com/austrian-pr...ss-kindle-drm/

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by Quoth

There is a YouTube video of it.

Video is even easier now.

Streaming content is trivial.

But yes, the Advance Review Copies (ARCs) on paper are pirated and made into ebooks. Certainly for the popular authors.

It's not winning the Booker or a Hugo that tells you that you are famous, but quality ebooks out before the publisher releases one.

The last Harry Potter book was famously available on the darknet as an ebook before the hardback was released.

[binaryhermit]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

The last Harry Potter book was famously available on the darknet as an ebook before the hardback was released.

That was a retailer delivering a paper copy to a customer prematurely, I believe.
EDIT: and that customer taking pictures of every page and uploading it to the internet, and the internet doing manual conversion to text

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by binaryhermit

That was a retailer delivering a paper copy to a customer prematurely, I believe.
EDIT: and that customer taking pictures of every page and uploading it to the internet, and the internet doing manual conversion to text

My understand was it was an unbound galley proof rather than a customer getting a copy prematurely. I remember seeing a picture of one of the pages at the time.