Ethics and legalities of format shifting

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

It is against Laws!

No one cares. The point is, you can do it. Whether you want or not is another matter altogether.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

It is forbidden by law to manipulate the licensed file so that it can be read on devices that do not belong to the account - DRM removal.

This conflates two completely separate issues.

It is against the law (where I live) to format shift, unless permitted by the license granted to you by the copyright owner. That is true whether or not DRM is applied. Most music CDs have no form of DRM applied, but it is still against the law (where I live) to convert the music to MP3 for your own use.

It may or may not be against the law (depending on where you live) to remove DRM.

The first is true regardless of the second.

You seem to use terms in a way that noone else understands, which makes talking to you difficult.

[binaryhermit]

in the US, DRM (really should be called "Fair Use Circumvention Kit") removal is illegal under the DMCA (punishable by up to 2 years in federal prison) and format shifting for personal use is generally legal under the "fair use" exception to copyright law.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

It is against Laws!

It is not against "Laws" to convert a non-drm ebook from one format to another.

Certain retailers might put conditions in their terms & conditions to forbid it, but whether those terms are legal and enforceable is undecided.

But some retailers do not impose such conditions.

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

No one cares.

The most important one in this case - me!

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by binaryhermit

in the US, DRM (really should be called "Fair Use Circumvention Kit") removal is illegal under the DMCA (punishable by up to 2 years in federal prison)

If you're going to suggest such a thing, please give the exact part of the act you're basing this on. I beleive you have mis-read the act.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

It is forbidden by law to manipulate the licensed file so that it can be read on devices that do not belong to the account - DRM removal.

And this manipulation enables the theft, which takes place when this modified file is also used on a device belonging to another account.

Then another license would have had to be bought.

What about eBooks that do not have DRM such as those from Tor? What can I do with those? If I buy in ePub, can I put it on multiple devices?

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

It is not against "Laws" to convert a non-drm ebook from one format to another.

Due to bad experience I avoid books without hard DRM.

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

What about eBooks that do not have DRM such as those from Tor? What can I do with those? If I buy in ePub, can I put it on multiple devices?

I will hardly get DRM-free ebooks.
tor-online.de/nutzungsbedingungen/

5. Buchbestellungen

Die Webseite informiert dich über Buchneuheiten und Autoren. Wir bieten dir auch die Möglichkeit, über die Webseite Bücher zu bestellen. Dies erfolgt durch die Verlinkung auf Angebote von Partnerunternehmen (zum Beispiel Amazon.de, Thalia.de). Sofern du dich für eine Bestellung/Kauf bei einem unserer Partnerunternehmen entscheidest, verlässt du unsere Webseite und wirst auf deren Webpräsenz weitergeleitet. Die S. Fischer Verlag GmbH ist von da an nicht mehr die verantwortliche Stelle für die Datenverarbeitung. Es gelten die Datenschutzbestimmungen und AGB des jeweiligen Anbieters.

Google Translation

5. Book orders

The website informs you about book innovations and authors. We also offer you the opportunity to order books via the website. This is done by linking to offers from partner companies (e.g. Amazon.de, Thalia.de). If you decide to order / purchase from one of our partner companies, you will leave our website and will be redirected to their website. From then on, S. Fischer Verlag GmbH is no longer the responsible body for data processing. The data protection regulations and terms and conditions of the respective provider apply.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

The most important one in this case - me!

As I said, your caring or not has nothing to do with whether you can do it or not. You can. And that's the whole point. You may not want to, but that's not the same thing as not being able to.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

I will hardly get DRM-free ebooks.
tor-online.de/nutzungsbedingungen/Google Translation

One of the stores used by Tor (at least when accessed from the UK) is ebooks.com. They offer DRM-free ePubs. For example, the current first book listed on Tor is:

https://www.ebooks.com/en-gb/book/detail/210007068/

At the Publisher's request, this title is being sold without Digital Rights Management Software (DRM) applied.

[...]

Download file formats

This ebook is available in:

EPUB (drm free, digitally watermarked)

DRM Free

The publisher has supplied this book in DRM Free form with digital watermarking.

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I posted earlier on in this thread that John Scalzi was happy for his DRM free eBooks Redshirts to be loaned to a friend and even format shifted. That goes against Kobo's T&C. They say I cannot loan you a copy to read and the author says I can. I would say that the author trumps Kobo.

I have no problem with the lending of e-books, but this is a poor argument. The wishes of the author are irrelevant. If Scalzi tells his fans it is OK with him if they steal a copy from a bookstore that won't make it legal.

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

One of the stores used by Tor (at least when accessed from the UK) is ebooks.com. They offer DRM-free ePubs.
...
The publisher has supplied this book in DRM Free form with digital watermarking.

There is a good example of a book being licensed without DRM and not sold for use on a specific device. It would seem to me to be a prime candidate for resale if the license could be transferred legally.

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

Due to bad experience I avoid books without hard DRM.

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

I will hardly get DRM-free ebooks.

Originally Posted by murraypaul

One of the stores used by Tor (at least when accessed from the UK) is ebooks.com. They offer DRM-free ePubs.

I think what ottischwenk has written is that he purposely only obtains ebooks with strong DRM because someone got possession of one of his devices and and published the books on it to the internet.

In several posts I believe he has also discussed device password locks which other posters conflated with DRM, then he and the other posters talked past each other for multiple rounds.

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

One of the stores used by Tor (at least when accessed from the UK) is ebooks.com. They offer DRM-free ePubs. For example, the current first book listed on Tor is:

https://www.ebooks.com/en-gb/book/detail/210007068/

There i have problems in finding only one german book, that interests me.
Even from authors who write in German, I only find English translations.

DRM Free

The publisher has supplied this book in DRM Free form with digital watermarking.

And it is with such a book that I have had such bad experiences that something like that no longer comes into my library.