Ethics and legalities of format shifting

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

You don't know anything about the DRM removal, do you? Anyone who steals your device can remove the DRM, because the keys are on the device.

Oh yes - of course in plain text, easy to find and consist of "123456"

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

Oh yes - of course in plain text, easy to find and consist of "123456"

There are tools capable of finding and reading those keys in seconds. Of course the thief won't search for them manually.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

No, it is impossible to manufacture, package, transport, manage and trade a cheap Amazon Reader at such a price.
Amazon certainly makes a profit with the more expensive devices.
The difference in manufacturing costs is not particularly great.
It's the same with Kobo, Tolino, brands that have bookshops behind them - the cheap devices can only be cross-financed.

Do you have any evidence to back up your assertion?

[Apache]

Trying to get ottischwenk to change his mind is like ......
Apache

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

There are tools capable of finding and reading those keys in seconds. Of course the thief won't search for them manually.

And the thief owns the tool that runs on the kindle and search for passwords?
My answer is NO

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

And the thief owns the tool that runs on the kindle and search for passwords?
My answer is NO

The tools are freely available online and relatively simple to use. They don't need to be installed on the device. They just retrieve the information from your device.

Why do you think everyone says that DRM is not stopping pirates at all? Because yes, the DRM removal is THAT easy and simple.

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

Do you have any evidence to back up your assertion?

Should I send you price lists for large quantities only of the components used?
Together they cover about 70% of the sales prices of Tolino, Kobo Nia, Kindle 2019.
And that's too much for the publishers to be able to sell these readers for a profit.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

Again - they didn't buy a book, just a license to read a file.

That file is a book. I didn't buy a license. I bought a book.

When I signed up for my account at Amazon, I NEVER agreed to any terms and agreements pertaining to eBooks. So in that case, none of terms and agreements are valid. Maybe you have to agree now, but back then, there were no eBooks and no terms and agreements pertaining to eBooks. If Amazon wants to agree, then they need to make it mandatory for me to agree before being allowed to buy any eBooks.

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

The tools are freely available online and relatively simple to use. They don't need to be installed on the device. They just retrieve the information from your device.

Please explain to me how something like that could be done.
Does he ask: show me the password?
Or does he do it differently?

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I bought a book.

No - perhaps you think so.
But you bought a license for a file, that must not be changed.
It is copyright law.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

This statement is also wrong - the servers are only needed initially, then no longer.
You are also responsible for the condition of your device with which you view the file.

The servers are required to authorize the computer to allow these eBooks to be read. A lot of the old DRM pre-ADE was tied to your computer's hard drive. If you changed your system hard drive or the computer, the DRM would need to be authorized again. If the servers are no longer running, you cannot authorize again and redownload to update the DRM.

Basically, if I was unable to remove the DRM from the eBooks I have bought, I would have lost a lot of eBooks I paid good money for.

Is Amazon doing something illegal with KFX when the publisher requests that their eBooks be sold with no DRM yet Amazon adds DRM to these eBooks in KFX? Can these publishers opt out of KFX? Did they even opt in to KFX?

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by Apache

Trying to get ottischwenk to change his mind is like ......
Apache

Im not able to change the law.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Paper books are usually read by more than one person as well. Not at the same time, perhaps, but the result is the same. The persons reading a paper book bought by another person won't buy their own copy.

Actually, my family members borrow my paper books often. No one reads my ebooks besides me, because the rest of my family prefers paper books. So no, it's not a given that an ebook file is read by more people than a paper copy.

Before I managed to switch my mother to reading eBooks, she would share her pBooks with my sister and some of her friends.

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The servers are required to authorize the computer to allow these eBooks to be read. A lot of the old DRM pre-ADE was tied to your computer's hard drive. If you changed your system hard drive or the computer, the DRM would need to be authorized again. If the servers are no longer running, you cannot authorize again and redownload to update the DRM.

But the servers are running!

Basically, if I was unable to remove the DRM from the eBooks I have bought, I would have lost a lot of eBooks I paid good money for.

No, because the servers are running

Is Amazon doing something illegal with KFX when the publisher requests that their eBooks be sold with no DRM yet Amazon adds DRM to these eBooks in KFX? Can these publishers opt out of KFX? Did they even opt in to KFX?

I don't know, but I heard that KFX supposedly can't be removed, but I don't know either.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

Please explain to me how something like that could be done.
Does he ask: show me the password?
Or does he do it differently?

Detailed description of DRM removal is not allowed on MR. And in the case of Kindle books, the password has nothing to do with it. The books are keyed to a specific device, and if the thief has the device with the books, the DRM can be easily removed. I'm not that familiar with the DRM on Kobo kepubs, but presumably the process is similar.

The only foolproof DRM is the one that demands verification and internet connection every time you open a book. Some publishers and booksellers use such a DRM in their proprietary apps. Not Amazon and Kobo, though.