Harry Potter - Popular, but never to be a Classic

[John F]

Some of these posts sound Dickensian: "Please sir, may I have a good book to read."

[DuskyRose]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

This is the part that's blowing my mind just a bit. I'm just trying to imagine how any teacher at a state funded school actually (actually mind you) has the authority to assign what amounts to homework over the summer break?

I have no idea why they wouldn't. Nor why they should be illegal. Summer off isn't a right. It was a necessity for farming communities that needed their children on the farms during the summer months. Many communities when I was a teenager even looked into year-round school, with alternate on-off periods, to handle huge overflows of new students, and all children in the family on the same schedules. I don't know any that went that route, but I know it was discussed for a while. Mostly they just built more schools, or crowded up the classrooms.

I don't know of any parents in my childhood that had a problem with it, especially since reading lists were really the only homework we got. We had very long, boring summers. It helped fill in the time, and the local libraries always had copies in stock.

For my own kids, it was welcomed, not only as something to do, but gave us something to discuss during the summer as they read. Summer is a hard time to keep teenagers entertained, unless they're old enough to find summer jobs.

Summers off isn't like a religious holiday or anything. As a parent, I'd much rather they went to school year-round, with more time for PE, (which most schools seemed to have dropped), more art, shorter days... parcel that time out to better use, and keep the kids busy and learning and still have time for play and family vacations.

Daycare centers do it all year, to get kids ready for kindergarten. Most seem to parcel the time out well.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by DuskyRose

Summers off isn't like a religious holiday or anything.

Of course it is (minus the religious part). But then we actually called it "Summer Vacation" (or at the least Summer Break), and not "Summers off" Back when I was in school. Which surely implies "No school." Alice Cooper even wrote a song about it.

Seriously, though... I take your point. But I do believe there's a little more to my point than you're willing to admit, as well. I don't believe teachers should be able to academically punish students who don't turn in home work on the first day of school. Whether or not most parents would complain about summer homework is beside the point. It is still my contention that there is no official authority to assign mandatory, graded reading homework over summer break. They've just simply manufactured their own authority and no one questions them on it. And if they do have the authority, then why do I hear nothing about math, geography, government, social studies, or science homework being mandated over summer break?

"Algebra Test on polynomial equations first day back! Be ready."

[DuskyRose]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

"Algebra Test on polynomial equations first day back! Be ready."

They don't do that because the students aren't learning to read, like they'd have to be learning new math equations. These students have already been taught to read, usually are given books from the *next* teacher that's an intermediate level between the last grade and the next, so they're not really needing supervision while reading the book.

It's the concepts that are going to be the lessons, and a good way to avoid 'use it or you lose it' during three months of summer. Where most, (about 98% of the kids I knew) never read anything they weren't forced to read. Ever. And that was telling when they got to high school and struggled with more reading materials.

Usually, the teachers would give you a week after you came back, so if you hadn't bothered to read the material, (which was more than a few students) you could cram it in somewhere that last week and pass the test, and be ready for discussion.

I really, really can't get upset over assigned summertime reading assignments. They have good points, and aren't interrupting anything important. The school system just needs to make sure enough are available from the school, from the gutenburg project online, or the local libraries so that they don't cost money the parents may not have.

If a kid can read a book of their own choice during the summer, they can slip in the assignment in there somewhere. If they're not reading, they need the practice.

[JSWolf]

There were some books I read in school that I did enjoy and I feel I put in more effort with those books then the ones I could not stand. Shakespeare and Canterbury Tales were too I really hated.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by DuskyRose

I really, really can't get upset over assigned summertime reading assignments.

I can't get upset about it either. I was amazed that it might be going on more than anything, to be honest. But then you've already confirmed my suspicions anyway. Namely that there is no required summer reading with graded homework due the first day back (as has been claimed in this thread and elsewhere). There's merely a suggested summer reading list, and the opportunity for go-getters to get a head start on some future homework/discussion that will come due sometime after the new school year has already started. Crammers cram, go-getters go and get. Same as it ever was. Nothing to see here. *shrug*

[Question Mark]

I read the first Harry Potter book because my wife, a non-native English speaker, had picked up an English copy of the book and was asking me all these questions about strange words. I got tired of asking her to read me the sentence so I could have the word in context. Decided it would be far simpler just to read the book. Wasn't terribly impressed by it, but was better able to help my wife work her way through it. Neither of us bothered with any of the other books in the series...

Until, that is, I was supervising some of my students during their lunch breaks. On winter days when the weather was bad, they would bring in DVDs to watch. Most of what they brought in wasn't terribly interesting. But then somebody brought in the Harry Potter series. I saw snippits here and there, but never paid too much attention. However, as the series progressed, it seemed to get darker and more interesting. I thought I might give it another chance if for no other reason than to understand what was captivating the attention of so many of my students.

I thereupon ordered all the books and all the movies from the local library. Read and watched them entirely out of sequence as each title became available. Was pleasantly surprised. I quite enjoyed the series as it grew darker and as the characters matured. Am now currently reading the series in both Japanese and Chinese for language practice, switching languages each time I begin a new book.

Will the series ever become a "Classic". Don't know. Perhaps. It's certainly has had tremendous reach. Whether it can continue to maintain that over time is another question. I suppose it will depend if anything else comes along to bump it out of the way.

As for the "Classics" in school. I really think the education system needs to rethink its goals. Is the goal to teach students to read and write or to "enculture" students?

Personally, I think that courses in "Literature" or the "Classics" should be optional. Just like the two years of Latin which I took in high school. Nobody was forced to take it, but it was on offer for those who wished to do so.

As for regular English classes, I think there should be a very diverse range of reading material. Because people have such different tastes in reading, I think much of the reading material should be somewhat short in nature. That way, if a student doesn't like a particular book or author, they are not subjected to it for an entire term or semester. When reading material which draws upon Shakespeare or other "Classics", it could be noted in a footnote. Perhaps a scene from Romeo and Juliet could be compared to scene from West Side Story or a more modern rendition on the theme of star crossed lovers. No need to read the entire play. There would be a Literature/Classics class for that.

However, if teachers really want their students to read the "Classics", then perhaps they should just forbid them from doing so. That might just pique their interest.

As for Shakespeare, wasn't much into him in school. It was only later that I became able to see his genius and historical significance. That said, I still would be unlikely to pick up any of his works for pleasure. Have always much preferred Beckett, even when I was in high school.

[Thasaidon]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

They've just simply manufactured their own authority and no one questions them on it. ."

I ran a national Education charity for years in the UK and this is precisely what teachers and schools do all the time. From experience I can say that often the results are unjust, unfair and send entirely the wrong message to students and parents.

[Thasaidon]

Originally Posted by Question Mark

However, if teachers really want their students to read the "Classics", then perhaps they should just forbid them from doing so. That might just pique their interest..

Well said sah! My thoughts exactly.

[DuskyRose]

Originally Posted by Question Mark

However, if teachers really want their students to read the "Classics", then perhaps they should just forbid them from doing so. That might just pique their interest.

I doubt that would work. They'll look up a quick summary on-line, see that it's a PLAY, nothing interesting or x-rated, in old English that they'd have to work at reading, no less, and it'd be forgotten as quickly as it caught their attention.

They're not stupid. Not when they have tons of other books on-line, including KU and libraries, and a massive amount of fanfic. Which they not only read, but write.

They're not as easily tricked into anything anymore.

[Thasaidon]

Originally Posted by DuskyRose

I doubt that would work.

They're not as easily tricked into anything anymore.

Depends how cleverly it was done.

[Question Mark]

Originally Posted by DuskyRose

I doubt that would work. They'll look up a quick summary on-line, see that it's a PLAY, nothing interesting or x-rated, in old English that they'd have to work at reading, no less, and it'd be forgotten as quickly as it caught their attention.

They're not stupid. Not when they have tons of other books on-line, including KU and libraries, and a massive amount of fanfic. Which they not only read, but write.

They're not as easily tricked into anything anymore.

Perhaps. However, the current state of affairs has certainly not worked. Quite the opposite. So time to try something different.

Tell people they're just too stupid to understand/appreciate such deified works and they might just seek to prove otherwise. Or they might just seek to prove how modern equivalents are superior. In any case, they would have to have read the former to prove the latter.

However, in keeping with your thoughts about the ingenuity of modern readers, they might by accident or design discover The Graphic Canon and so be introduced and perhaps inspired to learn more about some of the "Classics" which underlie much of our literature.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Graphic_Canon

[John F]

Originally Posted by DuskyRose

I doubt that would work. They'll look up a quick summary on-line, see that it's a PLAY, nothing interesting or x-rated, in old English that they'd have to work at reading, no less, and it'd be forgotten as quickly as it caught their attention.

They're not stupid. Not when they have tons of other books on-line, including KU and libraries, and a massive amount of fanfic. Which they not only read, but write.

They're not as easily tricked into anything anymore.

I tend to agree. Maybe you could fool them once or twice, but they would catch on to the scam.

[DuskyRose]

Originally Posted by Question Mark

However, in keeping with your thoughts about the ingenuity of modern readers, they might by accident or design discover The Graphic Canon and so be introduced and perhaps inspired to learn more about some of the "Classics" which underlie much of our literature.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Graphic_Canon

Which is still another form of fanfiction, and not the same as reading the originals. Because no matter how well represented, they're not the same as reading the original

And this graphic representation of stories doesn't even have whole stories in them. Just scenes.

It's got a pretty low review number at Amazon, (12) since published in 2013 and two of those are low stars. Not exactly something that looks to be a huge starter, and I don't see it being any kind of break-out hit among kids now.

Left on their own, kids the closest most kids are going to get to Bram Stoker's Dracula is the Twilight movie series. And if they like it well enough, they *may* even bother to read the Twilight books.

With the millions of written books, stories, and fanfics kids can have access to, they're turning more and more to just glancing at the classic in movie form and moving on. If it's in black and white... Yeah, that's an automatic 'no' from most.

I even doubt that most high school students have even seen a movie version of "A Christmas Carol", let alone picked up the original story without it being on a mandatory list somewhere. Let alone any of the other classics.

[Tarana]

Originally Posted by DuskyRose

Left on their own, kids the closest most kids are going to get to Bram Stoker's Dracula is the Twilight movie series. And if they like it well enough, they *may* even bother to read the Twilight books.

With the millions of written books, stories, and fanfics kids can have access to, they're turning more and more to just glancing at the classic in movie form and moving on. If it's in black and white... Yeah, that's an automatic 'no' from most.

I even doubt that most high school students have even seen a movie version of "A Christmas Carol", let alone picked up the original story without it being on a mandatory list somewhere. Let alone any of the other classics.

Scary but true. My cousin's daughter is now in high school and the number of kids that read books at all today, electronic or not, is very low. She's a HUGE fan of scifi, so reading a book all the time. Alas, none of them classics. I had suggested to her that a lot of the themes in scifi come from history, so I gave her a short list. She read Bullfinch's Mythology ($.99 at Amazon) while recovering from COVID. Now she's kindof excited about reading more - the librarian is making some recommendations on that.