Anybody here dealt with "Redshelf" vis: ePUB?

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by najgori

When I click "Try It Now" I get AmGov by Christine Barbour and it is scrollable, not reflowable and it is not fixed layout.
It looks like every chapter is one long rotulus where you scroll up and down, so it is not reflowable - perhaps that is the way that javascript renders epub, but without original epub I don't know.

We can slap the RPNs in there--a page map and we can slap the visible page numbers in there, too. It will significantly interfere with the layout of the eBook. This is "one of those;" it's an eBook that is, in actuality, reflowable, but it's formatted to the nth damn degree. When I originally met with this client, I proposed fixed-layout--that's how heavily-formatted it is, and all you guys know, I call FXL the "Format of last resort" for a reason. But they wanted reflow and we made it so. Nonetheless, it's rife with text boxes, tables...I just dread the thought of of adding these RPNs and visible page numbers. I know--KNOW--the client isn't going to be happy with the result.

They're already cranky (not with us) because the WAY that the page flows doesn't align, visually, with how they 'see' the book pages. When we add these PNs...well. URGH.

I agree with najgori about what s/he sees here. It's like this odd critter, neither beast nor fowl.

Hitch

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by najgori

When I click "Try It Now" I get AmGov by Christine Barbour and it is scrollable, not reflowable and it is not fixed layout.
It looks like every chapter is one long rotulus where you scroll up and down, so it is not reflowable - perhaps that is the way that javascript renders epub, but without original epub I don't know.

When I tried the RedShelf try it now, it was reflowable. When I shrank the web page, the text reflowed. I've attached a couple of images of what I saw.

[najgori]

Reflowable means no scrollbar.

edit:...meaning, text should "flow" to next page.

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by DNSB

When I tried the RedShelf try it now, it was reflowable. When I shrank the web page, the text reflowed. I've attached a couple of images of what I saw.

Yes, and the mobileRead web page is reflowable exactly the same way. It is displayed as HTML in a browser.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by najgori

When I click "Try It Now" I get AmGov by Christine Barbour and it is scrollable, not reflowable and it is not fixed layout.
It looks like every chapter is one long rotulus where you scroll up and down, so it is not reflowable - perhaps that is the way that javascript renders epub, but without original epub I don't know.

It's also slow and those annoying flashing dots. MEH! BAH! AWFUL!

[phillipgessert]

Originally Posted by najgori

Reflowable means no scrollbar.

edit:...meaning, text should "flow" to next page.

Not exactly; reflowability in this context has to do with content reflowing according to viewport size or display preferences, and that's not incompatible with vertical scrolling. Lots of e-readers support scrolling as an alternative to "pages." Now if that were a horizontal scrollbar, it might be different.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by najgori

Reflowable means no scrollbar.

edit:...meaning, text should "flow" to next page.

You and I have very different ideas of what reflowable means. To me, reflowable does not mean no scroll bar, it means the presentation is adapted to the output device regardless of whether that output device uses flow or paged mode. Which as the two sample images I posted shows that RedShelf does. Your logic would seem to state that when I am viewing an epub using calibre's viewer, I must use page mode or the ebook will not be reflowable.

Now if it had horizontal and vertical scrollbars such as many PDF viewers...

[BetterRed]

Originally Posted by BetterRed

Suggestion: you, or your client, invests in an existing Redshelf publication and then you can dissect it.

Originally Posted by Hitch

Red, you crush me! You never thought I'd think of that? Sheesh, you wrong me, brother!

Originally Posted by najgori

...or one could use browser web inspector and directly read book code.
Is this demo epub even reflowable, or is it fixed layout?

Originally Posted by BetterRed

Sorry… silly questions time, they can sometimes trigger an ah-ha moment.

Originally Posted by DNSB

Redshelf epubs are reflowable. Just that they do not have useful documentation on the accessibility requirements. What they seem to want is a page list in the navigation document ( the first sample is from an epub3 book's nav.xhtml, the second from the toc.ncx included for epub2 renderers):

<nav role="doc-pagelist" aria-label="Page list" epub:type="page-list">
<h2>Pagebreaks of the print version</h2>
<snip>

Q.E.D.

BR

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by BetterRed

Q.E.D.

BR

I'm beginning to regret bringing this all up here. I mean, I didn't intend for any punching fights to start, lol.

I tend to agree that a scroll bar doesn't fit my idea of reflowable; (it's clear that like so many things, we all have our own ideas about what that is) that does help explain to me what the client means about the book not fitting their "pages." (sigh).

I'm just going to tell the client we'll slap in the page map...only god knows what it will do to their to-the-gnat's-ass layout and formatting, but you gotta slay the biggest dragon first, I guess.

(SIGH).

Hitch

[najgori]

Originally Posted by phillipgessert

Not exactly; reflowability in this context has to do with content reflowing according to viewport size or display preferences, and that's not incompatible with vertical scrolling. Lots of e-readers support scrolling as an alternative to "pages." Now if that were a horizontal scrollbar, it might be different.

Not on any of my Sonys, Kobos and Kindles. I guess I will have to read more and search harder to find such ebook.

[Turtle91]

What are reflowable eBooks?
Reflowable eBooks, sometimes called standard or flowing eBooks, are eBook files where the content will adjust (reflow) depending upon the reading system being used to view the file. For example, the amount of content visible on a single screen on an eBook being viewed on a smartphone will be much less than the amount of content shown on one screen of the same file being viewed on a larger device such as an iPad or PC.

With reflowable formats the person reading the book can usually adjust the text size, font, and other view settings, using their device or software.

Most eBooks are created in reflowable, rather than fixed-layout, formats as there is wide support across different retailers and reading systems, and the development costs are lower than fixed-layout formats.

The almighty internetz have spoken...

[Turtle91]

Originally Posted by najgori

Not on any of my Sonys, Kobos and Kindles. I guess I will have to read more and search harder to find such ebook.

It's not the ebook that has to be set up special for scrolling support...it's the device or app that needs to support the function. My iOS reader of choice, Marvin, handles it automatically on any ePub when I choose "scrolling" instead of "paging" in the software's settings.

edit: The viewing or reading functions, scrolling vs. paging, should not be confused with whether it is a fixed layout or reflowable book. It is perfectly possible to have a reflowable book being viewed in a scrolling manner - where the (vertical) scroll bar is either a means of navigation or just an indicator of your place in the document. The reflowable function would apply if/when the font size changed, or the width of the screen changed (portrait/landscape), etc. The number of words on a given line might change which in-turn changes the "length" of the document thus causing the scrollbar to cover more, or less, landscape when it moves.

[Turtle91]

Also, from what I understand, eink devices have a little trouble (ie. they can't) with scrolling text. But other Kindles (Fire) are able to just fine. Here is a site with instructions on how to turn the feature on/off.

In addition, Kobo seems to have "page transition settings" that allow scrolling:

The options will be "Plain", "Page Flip", "Page Fade", "Page Curl",
and "Scrolling".

Cheers,

[Quoth]

The Fire is a Tablet. I think they dropped Kindle from the name?

I doubt any dedicated ereader sensibly scrolls. Scrolls are stupid and it was really silly that Websites in 1992 went back over 2000 years. Pages are far better.

I'd love my web browser to paginate. The one on the Kindle DXG does. IMO the later webrowsers on eink are all horrible to use.

[najgori]

...about horizontal scrolling

What we really have now on hardware eink readers is horizontal scrolling, only page by page.
You only have to imagaine epub rendered as in Dead Sea Qumran Scrolls where on one horizontal scroll text is written in columns big image