Kindle Firmware 5.12.5

[shalym]

Originally Posted by binaryhermit

I suspect but don't know for sure that Verizon already has dropped 3g, leaving only 2g. Even if not, Verizon 2g and 3g are supposed to go away at the end of the year.

Given Sprint's merger with TMobile, they're not far behind.

And AT&T's supposed to shut off 3g in 2022 I think.

I promise you that Verizon has not shut off 3g yet, because I was connected using 3g yesterday while hiking.

Shari

[binaryhermit]

You sure it wasn't 2G?

(I suspected they had shut down 3G because the CDMA version of 3G doesn't do voice, so they could shut that down and make everyone who didn't have a phone that does LTE suffer through 1XRTT.)

Also, for large values of "recent" pretty much all Verizon phones do GSM, and Verizon even has roaming agreements with GSM carriers.

Or the perhaps more likely explanation is that I'm wrong.

[JSWolf]

Verizon is no longer allowing new 3G CMDA devices to be registered.

Currently, 3G / 4G non-HD Voice CDMA devices can't be activated for any new line of service.

https://www.verizon.com/support/knowledge-base-218813/

[shalym]

Originally Posted by binaryhermit

You sure it wasn't 2G?

(I suspected they had shut down 3G because the CDMA version of 3G doesn't do voice, so they could shut that down and make everyone who didn't have a phone that does LTE suffer through 1XRTT.)

Also, for large values of "recent" pretty much all Verizon phones do GSM, and Verizon even has roaming agreements with GSM carriers.

Or the perhaps more likely explanation is that I'm wrong.

I'm sure it was 3g, I used it to download a book to my phone when we took a break so that my dog could play in the brook for a while.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Verizon is no longer allowing new 3G CMDA devices to be registered.

https://www.verizon.com/support/knowledge-base-218813/

I'm not sure why they are posting this, but I can guarantee that they still do allow new devices that are 3g, since my current phone was purchased and added to my account only 3 months ago.

Shari

[ilovejedd]

Originally Posted by shalym

I'm not sure why they are posting this, but I can guarantee that they still do allow new devices that are 3g, since my current phone was purchased and added to my account only 3 months ago.

They weren’t supposed to activate any new devices that couldn’t do VoLTE.

Verizon CDMA shutdown was originally planned for 12/31/2019 and they already delayed it a year to 12/31/2020.

Granted, it’s possible they may delay it again because of the pandemic.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by ilovejedd

They weren’t supposed to activate any new devices that couldn’t do VoLTE.

Verizon CDMA shutdown was originally planned for 12/31/2019 and they already delayed it a year to 12/31/2020.

Granted, it’s possible they may delay it again because of the pandemic.

Well, technically, "they" didn't add it, I added it from the website by putting in the IMEI and changing the SIM from my old phone to the new.

I did just check and confirm that VoLTE is enabled on the phone, but so is CDMA.

Shari

[ilovejedd]

Originally Posted by shalym

Well, technically, "they" didn't add it, I added it from the website by putting in the IMEI and changing the SIM from my old phone to the new.

I did just check and confirm that VoLTE is enabled on the phone, but so is CDMA.

Ah, if you put in a non-VoLTE capable phone, Verizon's system should reject it. I know I've tried on iPhone 5s and that failed.

CDMA still works for now and it's a fallback in places with poor LTE. It's just activation of CDMA-only devices on new or upgrade service that should be blocked.

[Quoth]

"CDMA" is a generic term in the USA. It covers two kinds of US only 2G services that don't use a SIM. Technically 3G does also use a form of CDMA (Because of Qualcomm, a retrograde step), but outside the USA it's never called CDMA. There are three main variations of 3G data: Original 245K and various faster modes such as HSPA.
The USA only CDMA (US 2G) was never in Europe I think. The European 2G is using GSM, which always has a SIM. Apple wants SIMs to be software rather than a small card so they can have more control. Like the 3.5mm jack it's not actually about cost or space. The USA also has GSM, but on a different band to the original European GSM.
Later 1.8 GHz was added for GSM in Europe and in some places that's migrated to 3G.
Ironically GSM is the most reliable at long distance with low usage for voice. USA 2G CDMA and all 3G suffer cell breathing where calls are dropped as more users connect and further out users can't connect. The GSM doesn't breathe, the 4G mostly doesn't.
For 1 to 4 users the 4G and 5G are no faster at all in the same size channel. At 10 users the 4G supports twice the speed as 3G in the same channel, because CDMA is rubbish for mobile. Only because of Qualcomm wanting to dip their 2G CDMA patents it was used in 3G. CDMA was invented for secure two user half duplex military communication. It's always been a rubbish solution as more users are added on WiFi or Mobile.
Also 4G has NO voice mode. Voice calls have to use the data mode and VOIP which uses far more channel capacity than GSM or 3G. USA 2G CDMA is inefficient for voice.

I suspect some of the "CDMA" closures announced in the USA are not GSMA 3G, but the early 2G CDMA.
The 4G really needs 20 MHz channels to have a x4 performance boost over 5MHz channels. Some places only have 5MHz channels, and with small numbers of users there is little difference between 3G and 4G.
Also the word "cellular" is a clue. You need an absolute minimum of 3 channels, and ideally 9 channels to build a cellular network as the masts typically divide the area into 3 overlapping beams around the circle and any phone/modem has to pick up one mast much stronger than a further away one on the same channel. The reasonably received masts need to be on different channels.

You add more capacity by dividing a cell into 3 or 9 smaller cells.

[ilovejedd]

Originally Posted by Quoth

I suspect some of the "CDMA" closures announced in the USA are not GSMA 3G, but the early 2G CDMA.

The Verizon CDMA shutdown is for the ESN/MEID non-SIM version and Verizon uses it for both their 2G and 3G network.

Iirc, only devices with 4G LTE have SIM card slots when it comes to Verizon.

For me at least, voice calls on Verizon are always on VoLTE now. It’s easy to tell because on Verizon CDMA, you lose data when you make calls and that’s not happening anymore with LTE (likely because they’re using LTE data for the calls).

After the CDMA shutoff, all Verizon mobiles will need to have VoLTE in order to make calls. Phones such as the iPhone 5 and 5s which have LTE but no VoLTE support will not work for calls on Verizon. I tried activating a Verizon-branded iPhone 5s (whitelisted MEID/IME) on prepaid around Dec 19/Jan 20 and Verizon wouldn’t let me.

GSM 3G on AT&T and T-Mobile continue to operate as normal for now.

[JSWolf]

So eventually the 3G on Kindles in the US will cease to work.

[ilovejedd]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

So eventually the 3G on Kindles in the US will cease to work.

If they’re using Verizon, then yes. End of this year is Verizon’s planned shut down.

I don’t know if they’ll keep CDMA working partially for certain contracts/applications.

[Quoth]

Any USA CDMA with out SIM isn't true GSMA spec 3G. Needs special phones and you can't change operator. Not the same thing as some stuff with "virtual SIMs". So Verizon are closing something that was always anti-consumer and obsolete. They can't really run both, as they don't have the channels. You run ONE system in a particular region on a particular band.

[ilovejedd]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Any USA CDMA with out SIM isn't true GSMA spec 3G. Needs special phones and you can't change operator. Not the same thing as some stuff with "virtual SIMs". So Verizon are closing something that was always anti-consumer and obsolete. They can't really run both, as they don't have the channels. You run ONE system in a particular region on a particular band.

Verizon 3G uses CDMA EV-DO. Not GSM at all.

Verizon didn’t go GSM until they added LTE but even then, they used CDMA for voice in the beginning. It wasn’t until later that they added support for VoLTE (around 2014, I think?).

Even after the advent of LTE, Verizon and Sprint had the very annoying habit of only allowing/activating whitelisted devices on their network (despite the FCC mandate on Verizon’s 700MHz spectrum purchase). It’s only in later years when that practice has changed.

[barryem]

Goodereader has an article today about the Paperwhite 3's longevity. It seems they posted an article saying that Amazon had discontinued support for it and Amazon reached out to them, or so they say, and explained that there's a bug that prevents it from updating and that they're working on a fix for that bug and will have updates for it again soon.

Barry

[zaqxsw]

Originally Posted by barryem

Goodereader has an article today about the Paperwhite 3's longevity. It seems they posted an article saying that Amazon had discontinued support for it and Amazon reached out to them, or so they say, and explained that there's a bug that prevents it from updating and that they're working on a fix for that bug and will have updates for it again soon.

Barry

Just ran across the article by accident:

https://goodereader.com/blog/kindle/...t-new-firmware