h? font size adjusting

[Jim Chapman]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Another issue with the addendum is...
Which is wrong because px for font size is not acceptable.

You might not like px for font size, but per the CSS spec, it is allowed. See here: https://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/fonts.ht...pdef-font-size and note the link to <length> which includes 'px' in the valid ways to define a font-size.

As for % figures, they are normally relative to the font-size of the parent element. I'd be cautious about assuming how any particular reading system will default that, though obviously if no element in the 'child->parent' hierarchy specifies a font-size, it would be reasonable to use the user's preferred font-size.

'em' figures are rather the same - they are normally calculated based on what this element's em-size would otherwise be, which is to say, the parent's size. So '140%' and '1.4em' mean basically the same thing.

I say 'normally' because some elements (h? for instance) define their own way of getting a default value, which will be used if no other font-size value is provided.

I wouldn't expect every reading system to implement all these rules dependably, so if you really care about controlling the font size of your publication, 'px' might actually be the best measure. The CSS spec (linked above) defines a pixel thus:
The reference pixel is the visual angle of one pixel on a device with a pixel density of 96dpi and a distance from the reader of an arm's length. For a nominal arm's length of 28 inches, the visual angle is therefore about 0.0213 degrees. For reading at arm's length, 1px thus corresponds to about 0.26 mm (1/96 inch).

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Jim Chapman

You might not like px for font size, but per the CSS spec, it is allowed. See here: https://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/fonts.ht...pdef-font-size and note the link to <length> which includes 'px' in the valid ways to define a font-size.

As for % figures, they are normally relative to the font-size of the parent element. I'd be cautious about assuming how any particular reading system will default that, though obviously if no element in the 'child->parent' hierarchy specifies a font-size, it would be reasonable to use the user's preferred font-size.

'em' figures are rather the same - they are normally calculated based on what this element's em-size would otherwise be, which is to say, the parent's size. So '140%' and '1.4em' mean basically the same thing.

I say 'normally' because some elements (h? for instance) define their own way of getting a default value, which will be used if no other font-size value is provided.

I wouldn't expect every reading system to implement all these rules dependably, so if you really care about controlling the font size of your publication, 'px' might actually be the best measure. The CSS spec (linked above) defines a pixel thus:
The reference pixel is the visual angle of one pixel on a device with a pixel density of 96dpi and a distance from the reader of an arm's length. For a nominal arm's length of 28 inches, the visual angle is therefore about 0.0213 degrees. For reading at arm's length, 1px thus corresponds to about 0.26 mm (1/96 inch).

I won't use px because I want to be able to change the font size. px is fixed and em is no. So for an eBook, px is not a good idea. it's not up to the publisher to decide what font size we use. One of the reason some read eBooks is to be able ot use a large enough font size to be able to read. a fixed size font will most likely not be large enough.

[Jellby]

I have the solution: let the ebook set all sizes in % (or em, if you like), and you set your base font size in px.

(If you set your base size in em, a space-time singularity will swallow us all, because then there is truly no reference )

[ps67]

Originally Posted by Jellby

I have the solution: let the ebook set all sizes in % (or em, if you like), and you set your base font size in px.

(If you set your base size in em, a space-time singularity will swallow us all, because then there is truly no reference )

I like the joke, but seriously: preferences are pretty personal so it is only my opinion: when I read a book I like if nothing is expressed in px, especially the base font. I prefer that the base font is not settled at all (just like @JSWolf) and only relatives sizes are settled. I think that the ereaders will consent to You to change font size anyway (I did not try), but it is better to avoid to settle it

In my opinion the better choice for a publisher is to let free the reader to have the maximum possible control over font sizes and over font family, line height, margins (zero for me in css, then I use my Kobo to settle what I want).

Many publishers, or even worst self published authors, like to take decisions that should be taken by reader, but a ebook is not a pbook!

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by ps67

I like the joke, but seriously: preferences are pretty personal so it is only my opinion: when I read a book I like if nothing is expressed in px, especially the base font. I prefer that the base font is not settled at all (just like @JSWolf) and only relatives sizes are settled. I think that the ereaders will consent to You to change font size anyway (I did not try), but it is better to avoid to settle it

In my opinion the better choice for a publisher is to let free the reader to have the maximum possible control over font sizes and over font family, line height, margins (zero for me in css, then I use my Kobo to settle what I want).

Many publishers, or even worst self published authors, like to take decisions that should be taken by reader, but a ebook is not a pbook!

The big publishers do this as well. They also set margin.line hight, sometimes font size for body font, and sometimes embed fonts that are b=not eInk friendly (not nearly enough weight)

[Jim Chapman]

I agree with what you say, @JSwolf, @ps67: the great benefit of e-reading is it can put the reader back in control of their reading experience. It does offend me when book publishers impose their own decisions on me, particularly as regards layout, element-sizing and typeface.

They may argue that their choices are artistically justified ... and sometimes they may even be right. Certainly, it's reasonable for the content owner to be allowed to express an opinion about what their content should look like to the reader. But given the diversity of reading systems, and the different preferences and needs of the content users, it really is best if the publishers leave the readers free to customise their reading experience.

When I first developed the Freda e-reader, I began by ignoring all publisher-specified information. That was a rather extreme position, which came in for some criticism. Now, the program applies whatever CSS the publisher provides, and I've added settings to let the user ignore various aspects of the CSS (colour, margins, font size and typeface - these being the publisher-specified settings that I most often find annoying).

[Jellby]

Originally Posted by ps67

I prefer that the base font is not settled at all (just like @JSWolf) and only relatives sizes are settled.

But that is what I'm saying. The book/publisher should not specify the base font. Only the user/device should set it, and this can be done in px, why not?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Jellby

But that is what I'm saying. The book/publisher should not specify the base font. Only the user/device should set it, and this can be done in px, why not?

Why would the user go into the eBook and add in a font size in px? That's just stupid.

[ps67]

Originally Posted by Jellby

But that is what I'm saying. The book/publisher should not specify the base font. Only the user/device should set it, and this can be done in px, why not?

My experience with ereader is limited: Kindle and Kobo. When You read You have only a gamma of font sizes without any number value, I don't know effectively to what px I settle and and I don't care about it.

KOReader and Plato instead give some numbers, may be they are px but I don't really know.

[hobnail]

Threadjack: all of this discussion about being able to set the font size, line height, etc. makes me wonder (again) why it is that some/many of us gnash our teeth when we start reading an ebook that has wonky settings for these things. I can't ever remember having this reaction with any printed book. Is it because printed books are typeset by people who automatically avoid the excesses that bother us? Or it something about us being able to fix an ebook? I suspect it's the former; for example, I've pointed out before that I've gone through a bunch of printed novels/fiction that I have and none of them ever use a sans serif typeface; sans serif is only used in technical, cookbooks, programming, how-to, etc. books.

[Quoth]

Very few novels are badly typeset. School books and technical books are variable. But ereaders work best for novels and collections of short stories. I've seen badly done magazines of short stories were the paper version has obviously tried to be fancier than a paperback collection and they seem to have badly converted source done for PDF to paper used for the ebook version. I keep it simple, like the most basic paperback novels, but the source is done for epub. That's then edited for the PDF to paper version simply by setting page size, headers, footers and more printed book style front matter and end matter. Maybe some styles changed. Going the other way seems to be more work and risk of stupid things in the ePub.
I've also found that epub2 from docx (saved as and never edited in LO Writer, save edits as ODT) can be like the LO Writer Screen, and uploading epub2 to Amazon gives the azw and so called enhanced KFX fine, the azw looking just like the epub2. The old Mobi produced by Amazon by that route matches old mobi I'd make myself from epub2.

[Jellby]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Why would the user go into the eBook and add in a font size in px? That's just stupid.

Well... now that you mention it, if your reader does not allow to set your default font size...

But really, I didn't mean to modify the book. Leave the book alone as long as it doesn't need fixing. Use the reader's preferences to choose your default size. If it offers you a slider, or a set to choose from, you're rather limited; but if it (directly or indirectly) lets you specify your own "user css", you can specify your font size in px (or pt, or mm, or in...) there.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by hobnail

Threadjack: all of this discussion about being able to set the font size, line height, etc. makes me wonder (again) why it is that some/many of us gnash our teeth when we start reading an ebook that has wonky settings for these things. I can't ever remember having this reaction with any printed book. Is it because printed books are typeset by people who automatically avoid the excesses that bother us? Or it something about us being able to fix an ebook? I suspect it's the former; for example, I've pointed out before that I've gone through a bunch of printed novels/fiction that I have and none of them ever use a sans serif typeface; sans serif is only used in technical, cookbooks, programming, how-to, etc. books.

For example, Kobo (unpatched) has settings for margins, font size, and line height. If the eBook has L/R margins that are too wide, you cannot make then any less wide. If the eBook has a line height set, the settings cannot make that any less wide. If the eBook has offset text at a smaller font size, that cannot be made any larger without also making the other body text larger. Windows and orphans default to 2 and that is annoying. So in order to be able to use the settings and to be able to not have windows and orphans, the eBooks have to be edited. I like a narrow line height and narrow margins. I also like all of the body text to be the same size. I also don't like most chapter heading that waste a lot of screen space. Sometimes you see offset text with just a left margin specified. That doesn't look good. And paragraph spaces, I get rid of those and make sure there are indents where there shoud be and I use an indent of 1.2em. I've seen some eBooks used a 5% and even a 7% setting for indents.

The problem is that a lot of people who make eBooks do stupid stuff and we have to go in to fix it. And these are people who work for the big publishers. If we could get them to make eBooks correctly then we would not have to go in and fix them as much as we do. Correctly is to keep it simple which they don't do in most cases.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Windows and orphans default to 2 and that is annoying.

You did notice that you can use a Kobo eReader.conf setting to set the default widows and orphans to 1? As usual with Kobo, if the ebook's CSS calls for widows/orphans=3, it won't override that setting.

[Reading]
readingAdobeOrphans=1
readingAdobeWidows=1

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by DNSB

You did notice that you can use a Kobo eReader.conf setting to set the default widows and orphans to 1? As usual with Kobo, if the ebook's CSS calls for widows/orphans=3, it won't override that setting.

[Reading]
readingAdobeOrphans=1
readingAdobeWidows=1

I was talking about an unpatched Kobo without any of the hidden features enabled.