Kindle Firmware 5.12.5

[barryem]

Mr Wolfe, summing up your arguments as I read them, you seem to want digital purity of some sort; to finally rid the world of the evils of Mobi and make everyone like what you like better. And if the price of doing that is huge inconvenience to a lot of readers, well that's just life in the digital age.

I think Amazon is to be applauded for sticking by their old customers as well as they can. Good for them. It's not that I'm against digital purity, I like nice clean bits as much as the next guy. But that's not even a close second to everyone being able to read the books they bought on the devices they bought to read them on.

I mostly read on a phone using Moon+ so I mostly do read epub. But I do have a couple of new Paperwhites that I bought just before I started using the phone. If Amazon took your advice it wouldn't affect me much; if at all. But I'd be very disappointed in them.

Oh, and half the people in my retirement home do have older Kindles that still get Mobi files when they download their books. They'd be devastated. Some are avid readers. None has any way to convert books. Mine isn't the only computer here but I'm the only one here who knows how to use one. Your purity would sure take a big chunk out of my free retirement time.

I just realized that it sounds like I'm arguing against some kind of racism. I realize I'm not doing that because I know you better than that. But it sure is a close parallel.

Barry

[Quoth]

Yes, lets abolish DVDs because BluRay discs are "better". It costs nearly nothing in the overall scheme of things to support mobi, azw/kf8 and KFX. Why unearth would anyone refuse to produce mobi? It's not the same scenario as 78s, LPs and cassettes. Even the 78 was produced for over 60 years. Though the microgroove vinyl 33 RPM LP came out about 1948, the 33 speed format and 12" discs (78 and 33) had existed from the 1930s. The 78 rpm versions of 45 singles were released up till maybe 1962 for some titles, about 12 years after RCA brought out the 45 format.

Deliberately killing an old format digital when it costs almost nothing to offer as an alternate for those that need it and is stored and delivered in the same way makes no sense. It's not at all like analogue TV vs Digital TV. Even on Analogue TV, the UK maintained the two 405 line channels from 1967 (start of 625, though was 1948-1950 in Europe) to 1985. RTE paralleled 405 and 625 from 1962 to 1985. Unlike TV, having the old Mobi as well as azw/KF8 costs nearly nothing.
There are already Kindle ebooks that don't work on ANY eink reader, only Kindle Apps on iOS, Fire, Android because they are a different class of electronic document, so much so they maybe should have a different name than "Kindle ebook".

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by NullNix

... and if they were sideloaded, users would just lose access to them? That would really make them happy! Amazon have never to date removed access to users' books -- or, rather, they did it for precisely one book and caught no end of trouble for it. Do you think that makes them likely to do it again because one contrarian on the Internet says they should?

If they are side loaded with Calibre, conversion is very easy.

Periodicals *cannot* be rewritten in KF8 without Amazon doing the software development work to add periodical support to either their KF8 or KFX readers, which probably means format extensions as well. (And now I'm wondering if you've ever used a Kindle to read a periodical. The UI has a whole layer for choosing what article to read that just doesn't exist for books at all.)

Yes to periodicals in KF8. but not KFX.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by barryem

Mr Wolfe, summing up your arguments as I read them, you seem to want digital purity of some sort; to finally rid the world of the evils of Mobi and make everyone like what you like better. And if the price of doing that is huge inconvenience to a lot of readers, well that's just life in the digital age.

I think Amazon is to be applauded for sticking by their old customers as well as they can. Good for them. It's not that I'm against digital purity, I like nice clean bits as much as the next guy. But that's not even a close second to everyone being able to read the books they bought on the devices they bought to read them on.

I mostly read on a phone using Moon+ so I mostly do read epub. But I do have a couple of new Paperwhites that I bought just before I started using the phone. If Amazon took your advice it wouldn't affect me much; if at all. But I'd be very disappointed in them.

Oh, and half the people in my retirement home do have older Kindles that still get Mobi files when they download their books. They'd be devastated. Some are avid readers. None has any way to convert books. Mine isn't the only computer here but I'm the only one here who knows how to use one. Your purity would sure take a big chunk out of my free retirement time.

I just realized that it sounds like I'm arguing against some kind of racism. I realize I'm not doing that because I know you better than that. But it sure is a close parallel.

Barry

The reason is to move forward. Even Sony did it. With the T1, Sony removed support for LRF/LRX.

The thing is, to move forward. There are things you cn do with KF8 that you cannot do wiith Mobi and trying to make it so Mobi is readable enough is a pain. Even Kobo moved forward. After the first two models, they made it so the rest can all use the same firmware version. You have to know when to move forward. Keeping Mobi is holding back. And as for periodicals, move it KF8.

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Even Kobo moved forward.

Yes, but when are they going to drop the old and obsolete EPUB2 in favor of EPUB3?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by jhowell

Yes, but when are they going to drop the old and obsolete EPUB2 in favor of EPUB3?

ePub 2 is not obsolete. ePub 3 is a mess.

[ps67]

Originally Posted by barryem

Mr Wolfe, summing up your arguments as I read them, you seem to want digital purity of some sort; to finally rid the world of the evils of Mobi and make everyone like what you like better. And if the price of doing that is huge inconvenience to a lot of readers, well that's just life in the digital age.

I think Amazon is to be applauded for sticking by their old customers as well as they can. Good for them. It's not that I'm against digital purity, I like nice clean bits as much as the next guy. But that's not even a close second to everyone being able to read the books they bought on the devices they bought to read them on.

I mostly read on a phone using Moon+ so I mostly do read epub. But I do have a couple of new Paperwhites that I bought just before I started using the phone. If Amazon took your advice it wouldn't affect me much; if at all. But I'd be very disappointed in them.

Oh, and half the people in my retirement home do have older Kindles that still get Mobi files when they download their books. They'd be devastated. Some are avid readers. None has any way to convert books. Mine isn't the only computer here but I'm the only one here who knows how to use one. Your purity would sure take a big chunk out of my free retirement time.

I just realized that it sounds like I'm arguing against some kind of racism. I realize I'm not doing that because I know you better than that. But it sure is a close parallel.

Barry

I agree with Barry, if many devices that can only read mobi are still used it would be a great issue for people that own them not to receive any books in their device.

Yes You could say that Amazon should update to kf8 the firmware of these devices, but may be there are technical reasons if it doesn't happen.

And anyway if somebody doesn't get access to wi fii or do not fire it except when buying a book the firmware can't be updated. Let's consider that old devices are often owned by people that can't afford a newer one or have difficulties to learn how to use another devices.

Surely, without the old mobi format things would be simpler for ebook builder, but if Amazon would drop out it many people would be damaged. I think and I hope for them that mobi will be with us for many Years.

[melksnor]

The best thing is, he doesn't even own a kindle.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by ps67

I agree with Barry, if many devices that can only read mobi are still used it would be a great issue for people that own them not to receive any books in their device.

Yes You could say that Amazon should update to kf8 the firmware of these devices, but may be there are technical reasons if it doesn't happen.

And anyway if somebody doesn't get access to wi fii or do not fire it except when buying a book the firmware can't be updated. Let's consider that old devices are often owned by people that can't afford a newer one or have difficulties to learn how to use another devices.

Surely, without the old mobi format things would be simpler for ebook builder, but if Amazon would drop out it many people would be damaged. I think and I hope for them that mobi will be with us for many Years.

If you don't connect to WiFi, then the Mobi DRMed eBooks you have will still work as is. If you do connect to WiFi, then you'd get the new firmware and can download the KF8 versions.

For the DX series, given that a KF8 firmware has been able to be jammed in, I see no reason they cannot get KF8. And given that the DX series is basically a larger K2, the K2 can get KF8. It's just the original Kindle that may or may not be able to get KF8.

However, Amazon could give a discount for all those with Mobi only devices (that cannot be upgraded) towards the cost of a new device.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by melksnor

The best thing is, he doesn't even own a kindle.

Actually, I have a PW3 sitting right here on the bookshelf.

[melksnor]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Actually, I have a PW3 sitting right here on the bookshelf.

interesting point you made then

Originally Posted by JSWolf

It would help if you keep your list of active (the ones you are actually using) updated. I did go by your list.

[barryem]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The thing is, to move forward. There are things you cn do with KF8 that you cannot do wiith Mobi and trying to make it so Mobi is readable enough is a pain.

When I buy a book I always make a private copy in epub and in mobi. When I do use my Kindle, occasionally, I'll usually read my private mobi format. I normally send it to my library on Amazon before I begin so I can download it and sync it (I do have Amazon's permission to do this) and I read it. I can't recall ever feeling like it was a pain to read. They're just fine.

Yes I do prefer only left justification and I get both edges justified with mobi. Who cares! I read paperbacks for about 50 years with both edges justified. It just ain't no big deal.

My retirement home has 16 units and the one down the street (part of the same group) has another 16. Of the 32 people living in this place I have one of the 3 computers and only one of the others has an internet connection. None of the people with the other computers would be willing to learn Calibre. They think Solitaire is a major leap!

Among these people are about a dozen Kindles, besides mine. And there are other people living nearby with Kindles. I bought most of them for them and about half of them are Kindle 3's and Kindle 4's and need mobi. If Amazon stops supporting them most will have to revert to paperbacks. This is a Hud supported place and most of the people here are so far below the poverty level that they just know it's up there somewhere.

But you want purity! I want my neighbors who love to read to be able to read their books!

Barry

[Josieb1]

There is no reason at all to kill mobi. It works perfectly well. I have multiple e-readers including a Kindle 4, 2 Kindle PW4s, 2 Voyages and Oasis 2. I read mobi on all of them. I have hundreds of Fan Fiction word docs converted to mobi. It works. No need to dump a format that works perfectly well.

[Waitingforatrain]

Off topic again? Start a new thread for the mobi debate. Thanks.

[Skydog]

Originally Posted by Waitingforatrain

Off topic again? Start a new thread for the mobi debate. Thanks.

+1 here.