Heard back from Tor on why Topaz for some books... - Page 2

tompe · 03-14-2009, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirbruce

But I thought Topaz books were searchable. So they have to be actual character sets, custom fonts or not; not just images.

So are they searchable and reflowable?

I just got the impression that they used images from a posting in another thread.

pilotbob · 03-14-2009, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tompe

So are they searchable and reflowable?

I just got the impression that they used images from a posting in another thread.

I have read a Topaz ebook. It did seem to reflow... but not very well. It actually looked like it zoomed when I changed the font size. I never tried to search in it or take a clipping.

BOb

tompe · 03-14-2009, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilotbob

I have read a Topaz ebook. It did seem to reflow... but not very well. It actually looked like it zoomed when I changed the font size. I never tried to search in it or take a clipping.

The reason I wondered about reflow was to see if it handles hyphenation in the production process. I got the impression that making a Topaz book from a paper book was a totally automated process.

nekokami · 03-14-2009, 01:43 PM

Can you search in a Topaz book? Maybe it does recognize characters behind the scenes, but uses the original image to preserve readability?

catsittingstill · 03-15-2009, 05:45 PM

The one(s) I had looked as if each word was an image, (because some of the letters weren't fully printed, but it wasn't consistent from letter to letter, so for example an e in one word would have an unprinted corner, but the e's in other words would be fine) and the images were placed in a line.

When I changed font sizes, the text did reflow, but badly printed letters were still badly printed.

It was very hard to read, and the pages turned very slowly, so I returned it the same day. I don't remember that I tried searching in it, or taking a clipping or anything.

pilotbob · 03-15-2009, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catsittingstill

It was very hard to read, and the pages turned very slowly, so I returned it the same day. I don't remember that I tried searching in it, or taking a clipping or anything.

I would have returned mine to if I had paid for it. But, it was one of the many freebees that Amazon has offered over the years.

BOb

NormHart · 03-18-2009, 10:06 AM

This seems promising (although the price on Off Armageddon Reef is way high.)

http://www.webscription.net/m-2-tor-books.aspx

JSWolf · 03-18-2009, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TallMomof2

If you're looking for Kushiel's Dart it's available as a free online book here. I c&p'ed it into Word, saved it as an html file and then added it to Calibre to convert to mobi and my copy ended up quite readable.

I tried reading Jacqueline Carey's Kushiel's Dart. Got 15 chapters into it and gave up as there was nothing happening and nothing looking like it was going to happen. Bored me big time.

JSWolf · 03-18-2009, 10:15 AM

The thing is, what is Tor going to do when they want these eBooks in other formats? They are going ot have to redo them. So who not do them right the first time around?

AnemicOak · 03-18-2009, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The thing is, what is Tor going to do when they want these eBooks in other formats? They are going ot have to redo them. So who not do them right the first time around?

Because if you read his message Tor isn't doing the Topaz books. Amazon is making them, Tor's just giving them permission. If/when Tor gets their ebook store going then they'll have to work on their back catalog.

AnemicOak · 03-18-2009, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I tried reading Jacqueline Carey's Kushiel's Dart. Got 15 chapters into it and gave up as there was nothing happening and nothing looking like it was going to happen. Bored me big time.

That's fine. I happen to like the books.

AnemicOak · 03-18-2009, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NormHart

This seems promising (although the price on Off Armageddon Reef is way high.)

http://www.webscription.net/m-2-tor-books.aspx

That's leftover from the Tor Webscription deal that Macmillan pulled the plug on a few years back. That is a crazy price isn't it (the Kindle version is $7.99)? I think they've just left it up because they were allowed to. I doubt they've sold many.

EDT: Sorry for so many replies in a row. I forgot about the multi-quote button.

Elfwreck · 03-18-2009, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirbruce

But I thought Topaz books were searchable. So they have to be actual character sets, custom fonts or not; not just images.

There's a form of scanned, searchable PDF where the actual text is invisible; what you're seeing is the scanned image of the letters. That way, the software doesn't have to figure out fonts and character spacings, which are often messed up by OCR programs that don't go to plain text.

Publishers seem to want ebooks to *look like pbooks*, and have missed the point that ebook readers don't need that and generally don't want it, that one of the main features of an ebook device is reflowable text & increasing the font to a size you're comfortable reading.

If Topaz uses scanned images of words, and "reflows" by zooming in on those, and basically cutting-and-pasting to rearrange them in the view window, that'd explain it being a glitchy format.

If that's not what Topaz does, there's no reason not to OCR the book into a USEFUL format and work from there. (If that is what Topaz does, they might be scrimping on time by not correcting the OCR errors--because if you never see the actual text, only the word-images, it's not likely to matter much, as long as over 95% are OCR'd correctly. And they usually are.)

And I suppose none of the publishing houses would consider going to the darknet, grabbing a scanned-and-OCR'd text copy of the book from some fan, and proofreading *that* instead of starting from scratch.

AnemicOak · 03-18-2009, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

If that's not what Topaz does, there's no reason not to OCR the book into a USEFUL format and work from there. (If that is what Topaz does, they might be scrimping on time by not correcting the OCR errors--because if you never see the actual text, only the word-images, it's not likely to matter much, as long as over 95% are OCR'd correctly. And they usually are.)

It's my understanding that it's a quick and dirty method for Amazon to get as many books as possible out for the Kindle.

Quote:

And I suppose none of the publishing houses would consider going to the darknet, grabbing a scanned-and-OCR'd text copy of the book from some fan, and proofreading *that* instead of starting from scratch.

They should. Some of the pirated scanned/OCR'd stuff out there is of higher quality than what some of the publishers are putting out anyway.

Nate the great · 03-18-2009, 10:59 AM

That's not the only reason for Topaz. I've had 2 textbooks in topaz that were actual text, not scanned images.

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03-14-2009, 01:43 PM	#19
nekokami fruminous edugeek Posts: 6,745 Karma: 551260 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northeast US Device: iPad, eBw 1150	Can you search in a Topaz book? Maybe it does recognize characters behind the scenes, but uses the original image to preserve readability?

03-15-2009, 05:45 PM	#20
catsittingstill Guru Posts: 643 Karma: 551634 Join Date: Dec 2007 Device: Kindle 1.0.8, iPod Touch, Kindle Keyboard	The one(s) I had looked as if each word was an image, (because some of the letters weren't fully printed, but it wasn't consistent from letter to letter, so for example an e in one word would have an unprinted corner, but the e's in other words would be fine) and the images were placed in a line. When I changed font sizes, the text did reflow, but badly printed letters were still badly printed. It was very hard to read, and the pages turned very slowly, so I returned it the same day. I don't remember that I tried searching in it, or taking a clipping or anything.

03-18-2009, 10:06 AM	#22
NormHart Semper Carpe Bufo Posts: 537 Karma: 21676 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Napa Valley, California Device: Kindle2 & Kindle3	This seems promising (although the price on Off Armageddon Reef is way high.) http://www.webscription.net/m-2-tor-books.aspx

03-18-2009, 10:15 AM	#24
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 79,792 Karma: 146391129 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	The thing is, what is Tor going to do when they want these eBooks in other formats? They are going ot have to redo them. So who not do them right the first time around?

03-18-2009, 10:59 AM	#30
Nate the great Sir Penguin of Edinburgh Posts: 12,375 Karma: 23555235 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: DC Metro area Device: Shake a stick plus 1	That's not the only reason for Topaz. I've had 2 textbooks in topaz that were actual text, not scanned images.