kepub vs epub render engines

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by NiLuJe

No one does typography like Adobe, when they get their mind to it.

(Adobe Reader's font rendering is still ridiculously better than anything else out there).

That's why I read mostly ePub. I want my books to look as good as they can.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by ps67

The other advantage of epub in Kobo is that it handles ligatures while kepub doesn't do.

There's a patch that enables ligatures in .kepub. Which seems to say that Kobo really could do with investing some time in kepub font rendering.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

There's a patch that enables ligatures in .kepub. Which seems to say that Kobo really could do with investing some time in kepub font rendering.

KePub enhanced typesetting can be wonky at times. The line height is wonky.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

KePub enhanced typesetting can be wonky at times. The line height is wonky.

I've not had the problem with line height, but it does affect the spacing between words, I believe. Though your hyphenation dictionary helps with that.

The fact that fan made patches make the layout better than the default makes me think Kobo hasn't invested enough time in kepub layout.

[droopy]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

That's why I read mostly ePub. I want my books to look as good as they can.

So I may be hurting myself by using the DavidFor plugin that automatically converts all epubs to kepub when sending to my Forma, huh?

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk

[Uncle Robin]

Originally Posted by droopy

So I may be hurting myself by using the DavidFor plugin that automatically converts all epubs to kepub when sending to my Forma, huh?

That's a matter of personal taste. I do know what ligatures are, don't understand why they matter so much to anyone, couldn't give a pair of fetid dingo kidneys for Adobe page numbers, and find the kepub rendered text looks just fine for my reading needs, so enjoy the added features like fast page turn etc. YMMV, and obviously does for many.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by droopy

So I may be hurting myself by using the DavidFor plugin that automatically converts all epubs to kepub when sending to my Forma, huh?

A correction: The KoboTouchExtended driver is developed and maintained by @jgoguen, not me.

[Quoth]

You can use the KoboTouchExtended driver with the on the fly kepub conversion off. I've done that rather than uninstall it since I learned it was kepubifying epubs. I sometimes want to compare epub on different platforms.
I don't miss the few extra "features" of the kepub mode which are not on any of the other non-Kobo ereaders.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by droopy

So I may be hurting myself by using the DavidFor plugin that automatically converts all epubs to kepub when sending to my Forma, huh?

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk

You are not hurting yourself. I suggest you try both and see which you like better.

Another thing I forgot to mention is Kobo changed the way page numbers worked with KePub and now they don't work properly. RMSDK has ADE page numbers. I don't like one screen equals one page. It means if you change any settings such as font size, margins, or line height, the page numbers change. They don't change with ADE page numbers. KePub page numbers used to work similarly to ADE page numbers, but no longer.

[HolyAura]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

You are not hurting yourself. I suggest you try both and see which you like better.

Another thing I forgot to mention is Kobo changed the way page numbers worked with KePub and now they don't work properly. RMSDK has ADE page numbers. I don't like one screen equals one page. It means if you change any settings such as font size, margins, or line height, the page numbers change. They don't change with ADE page numbers. KePub page numbers used to work similarly to ADE page numbers, but no longer.

I find the way the KePub pages work nice. I know I'm the minority, but it feels more normal to have page numbers change with each page flip just like on a printed book. It can also tell me exactly where I am in the book, like for example page 3235 out of 5964.

Some people also like the ePub page numbers more because the page numbers are the same as a printed book so if they want to refer to a certain part of the book, they can just say the page number and it would be the same part of the book on a printed book. However, I don't usually need to refer to a certain part of a book. Even if I do, I would just say for example 'the part where blah blah blah...' And, doesn't each printed book also have several sizes of it? Some books are small and therefore contain more pages, while there is another version of the same book that is bigger and therefore contains lesser pages. So, which version of the printed book is the ePub page numbers following? It can get confusing. Therefore, it's hard to refer to the exact part of the book using page numbers, no matter ePub, KePub or printed.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by HolyAura

I find the way the KePub pages work nice. I know I'm the minority, but it feels more normal to have page numbers change with each page flip just like on a printed book. It can also tell me exactly where I am in the book, like for example page 3235 out of 5964.

I don't think you are in the minority on this. One of the most common questions here over the years is, "Why doesn't the page number change when I turn the page?" That results in an explanation of kepubs and how to use them.

Some people also like the ePub page numbers more because the page numbers are the same as a printed book so if they want to refer to a certain part of the book, they can just say the page number and it would be the same part of the book on a printed book. However, I don't usually need to refer to a certain part of a book. Even if I do, I would just say for example 'the part where blah blah blah...' And, doesn't each printed book also have several sizes of it? Some books are small and therefore contain more pages, while there is another version of the same book that is bigger and therefore contains lesser pages. So, which version of the printed book is the ePub page numbers following? It can get confusing. Therefore, it's hard to refer to the exact part of the book using page numbers, no matter ePub, KePub or printed.

And another popular questions is about the page numbers not matching the paper book. Answering, "Which edition?" is almost enough of an answer. But, while the is a way to map the pages and use the same page numbering as a paper book, in my experience, very few books do this. I don't think I have a single book that does.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by HolyAura

Some people also like the ePub page numbers more because the page numbers are the same as a printed book so if they want to refer to a certain part of the book, they can just say the page number and it would be the same part of the book on a printed book. However, I don't usually need to refer to a certain part of a book. Even if I do, I would just say for example 'the part where blah blah blah...' And, doesn't each printed book also have several sizes of it? Some books are small and therefore contain more pages, while there is another version of the same book that is bigger and therefore contains lesser pages. So, which version of the printed book is the ePub page numbers following? It can get confusing. Therefore, it's hard to refer to the exact part of the book using page numbers, no matter ePub, KePub or printed.

You can either match the page numbers in an epub to a specific printed book edition using either Adobe's page-map or the epub3 epub:type="page-list". Alternatively, you can use Adobe's synthetic page numbers. All of which have the advantage that they will be the same on any epub renderer using the same epub file regardless of screen size, resolution, font size, margins, or whatever other factors might come into play.

Personally, I'm not all that fond of any of the above page numbering scheme but neither do I like the page per screen page numbering which is sensitive to the factors listed above. For the most part, a simple percentage is my preference.

One other disadvantage to page-map and page-list is that they can make the table of contents horrendously long. One book I was recently reading had 6 sections and 118 chapters plus 2309 entries from i,ii,iii,iiii,1....2305 for the page numbers. On my Forma, that made the TOC at 15 entries per page a mere 163 pages long. It took me about 3 seconds to decide to excise the page numbers from the nav.xhtml document.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by HolyAura

I find the way the KePub pages work nice. I know I'm the minority, but it feels more normal to have page numbers change with each page flip just like on a printed book. It can also tell me exactly where I am in the book, like for example page 3235 out of 5964.

Lets say you are reading and your eyes get tired so you increase the font size. Lets say you decide to change the font. Lets say you decide to change the margins and/or the line height. Your page number have just gone out the Window.

Some people also like the ePub page numbers more because the page numbers are the same as a printed book so if they want to refer to a certain part of the book, they can just say the page number and it would be the same part of the book on a printed book. However, I don't usually need to refer to a certain part of a book. Even if I do, I would just say for example 'the part where blah blah blah...' And, doesn't each printed book also have several sizes of it? Some books are small and therefore contain more pages, while there is another version of the same book that is bigger and therefore contains lesser pages. So, which version of the printed book is the ePub page numbers following? It can get confusing. Therefore, it's hard to refer to the exact part of the book using page numbers, no matter ePub, KePub or printed.

ADE page numbers by default are not the same as the pBook version. The advantage to ADE page numbers is that you get a sense of how long the eBook is. Also, your settings do not change the page numbers. This is nothing about referencing the eBook. It's about keeping consistent and ADE page numbers are consistent. Change your settings you have the the exact same page numbers with ADE page numbers. Change your setting and you change your page numbers with KePub. I don't like one page = one screen as that's inconsistent.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Lets say you are reading and your eyes get tired so you increase the font size. Lets say you decide to change the font. Lets say you decide to change the margins and/or the line height. Your page number have just gone out the Window.



ADE page numbers by default are not the same as the pBook version. The advantage to ADE page numbers is that you get a sense of how long the eBook is. Also, your settings do not change the page numbers. This is nothing about referencing the eBook. It's about keeping consistent and ADE page numbers are consistent. Change your settings you have the the exact same page numbers with ADE page numbers. Change your setting and you change your page numbers with KePub. I don't like one page = one screen as that's inconsistent.

Once again I have to agree with you. On my Kindles I use Calibre-generated page numbers (according to a specific number of characters per page). Those stay consistent as well and fulfill the same purpose for me as ADE numbers on my Nook and Kobo, i.e. help me to estimate how long the book is. Of course preferences differ and there are many people who don't want any numbers at all.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Once again I have to agree with you. On my Kindles I use Calibre-generated page numbers (according to a specific number of characters per page). Those stay consistent as well and fulfill the same purpose for me as ADE numbers on my Nook and Kobo, i.e. help me to estimate how long the book is. Of course preferences differ and there are many people who don't want any numbers at all.

% doesn't work. 50% of a book with 300,000 words is not the same as a 125,000 word book.