OverDrive sold to private equity firm KKR

[theducks]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

So KKR own rbdigital and Overdrive. Why assume Overdrive is going away?

If you own two cars, one fairly nice and one a rust heap and you decide you only need one car, would you dump the nice car?



look, I could be wrong. But honestly, there just isn't enough info to draw real conclusions. And six pages of angst about the death of Overdrive based on not much just seems silly.

Zod

As a former Silicon Valley worker, it IS common for companies to buy up others for the purpose of acquiring specific PATENTS they would like to use.
A short period later (just long enough that the regulators are kept away), they sell off the 'extras', lay off most of the former employees.
(and it is un-provable that some were bought simply to kill off a competing product)

[stumped]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Out of curiosity, why did you pick grannie instead of grandpa? Or was this simply ageism rearing it's ugly head?

Off topic off topic off topic
I will debate via pm if you guys insist but not in this fhread

[stumped]

Originally Posted by theducks

Zod

As a former Silicon Valley worker, it IS common for companies to buy up others for the purpose of acquiring specific PATENTS they would like to use.
A short period later (just long enough that the regulators are kept away), they sell off the 'extras', lay off most of the former employees.
(and it is un-provable that some were bought simply to kill off a competing product)

If I was an overdrive employee, I would be very worried, given KKRs treatment of other companies staff.e.g.toys r us.

But the good parts of the overdrive system will probably live on, unless it is written in a way that is expensive to maintain, hard to merge with the rbdigital product.

I once worked for a bank that was taken over by a bigger one, they threw out very good software, well customised for local market i, n order to have an inferior "one size fits all " global product that was a local disaster.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by stumped

If I was an overdrive employee, I would be very worried, given KKRs treatment of other companies staff.e.g.toys r us.

But in the end, it really doesn't matter to you as a reader.

But the good parts of the overdrive system will probably live on, unless it is written in a way that is expensive to maintain, hard to merge with the rbdigital product.

That is what I am getting at. If they merge rbdigital and OverDrive, the end result is a system that is as good as or better than current OverDrive.

You could argue that Kindle or Kobo might drop OverDrive or not support this new merged system, but that could have happened regardless. Amazon doesn't own OverDrive and Rakutan didn't seem to think it was worth keeping.

For all we know, if there was no buyer, OverDrive could have been shuttered. There's as much evidence for that as any of the other speculation going on.

[stumped]

There are 2 almost independent parts to overdrive. There's the browse and borrow part which they run on behalf of book owners (enrolled libraries) , and there are the apps for reading, listening. It's only fear of piracy that keeps those tied together ?

I would happily borrow from overdirve and read in moon reader, but they lose control of copies if they allow that? Though they allow USA kindles to work like that.

Libby is almost good enough to be a decent lightweight stand alone reader app, but there's no way to import sideloaded books into it or to tie it to an open with.... In android

An MP3 audiobook borrowed through overdrive will already play in any media app though. I know my library dropped all DRM on audiobooks a while ago and went MP3 only. Maybe because Microsoft exited the audio DRM game?. Dunno if all overdrive clients did the same. Which does pose the question: if lendng works ok for DRM free audiobooks, which are typically more expensive than ebooks, then why not lend DRM free ebooks?

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Some things I don't understand in this whole conversation:

1. Why is it assumed that just because Overdrive was purchased, it will be going away? KKR doesn't seem to be selling its own line of devices, so it seems like it is in their best interest to get Overdrive in the hands of as many users as possible. If anything, I would think Overdrive would become easier to access or at the least remain status quo.
   
2. If Overdrive does go away, why assume that the hapless ereader sellers will just throw up their hands and not adopt some other way to access libraries? Not all device makers are as incompetent as B&N.

I'm not worried about Overdrive going away, I'm worried about it being changed or "folded into" RBDigital or vice versa. The fact that KKR has now bought two direct competitors seems to indicate that something will change. Right now a lot of libraries use both RBDigital and Overdrive. It doesn't seem feasible that this will continue into the future.

As for point two... the major eReader sellers are also eBook sellers. When Kobo and Overdrive where owned by the same company, it made sense that they would offer integration between Kobo devices and Overdrive. What will be the incentive for Kobo to do this when they make money on book sales but not on Overdrive loans? (Unless there is a "kickback" from Overdrive, which there may be, I don't know.)

Personally I'll be happy if whatever comes out this still allows ADE downloads as my Tolino devices can handle that directly.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

That is what I am getting at. If they merge rbdigital and OverDrive, the end result is a system that is as good as or better than current OverDrive.

Or they could end up with something like Hoopla, where it's either "streaming" online or an Android app. That's the main thing I'm worried about, a Hoopla-like "solution."

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by rcentros

I'm not worried about Overdrive going away, I'm worried about it being changed or "folded into" RBDigital or vice versa. The fact that KKR has now bought two direct competitors seems to indicate that something will change. Right now a lot of libraries use both RBDigital and Overdrive. It doesn't seem feasible that this will continue into the future.

Why must there be two different services? If RBDigital and OverDrive are merged into one thing, why is that bad?

As for point two... the major eReader sellers are also eBook sellers. When Kobo and Overdrive where owned by the same company, it made sense that they would offer integration between Kobo devices and Overdrive. What will be the incentive for Kobo to do this when they make money on book sales but not on Overdrive loans? (Unless there is a "kickback" from Overdrive, which there may be, I don't know.)

And yet Kindles have worked with OverDrive for years. What was Amazon's incentive? It sure wasn't the threat of Kobo readers (which essentially weren't sold in the US until recently).

Originally Posted by rcentros

Or they could end up with something like Hoopla, where it's either "streaming" online or an Android app. That's the main thing I'm worried about, a Hoopla-like "solution."

Hey, it could happen. But neither RBDigital or OverDrive work that way now. So this company would have to abandon both of their current programs and create a new one.

[stumped]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

...But neither RBDigital or OverDrive work that way now. So this company would have to abandon both of their current programs and create a new one.

Actually, overdirve does work that way now [ a streaming solution where you read online in a browser] in that it is an available option.

The biggest game guide company , primagames, who are closing soon , sell e-guides which you can ONLY read online. There is no download option. I have several. But I find the on line only restriction very frustrating. I have them only because you get a free e guide code when you buy a collector edition hardback.

If a company wants to make life difficult for pirates, then streaming , plus android only is the way to go. We know that a quick trip to alf will equip you to De DRM anything that comes via ade, but cracking a streaming only product is much harder. Compare trying to backup a bought Amazon video with a bought kindle book. And extracting a protected prime lending kindle KFX book from a fire tablet is pretty much impossible

For books, could do a netflix style "stream or download for later " option on android and still be pretty secure. It's notable that both netflix and prime video limit the download for later option to secure devices. You cant do it on pc , except in the windows 10 store app for netflix, which can stash the content away securely. I don't know what percent of borrowers read on pc or Mac, probably not that many. upsetting those but making a huge dent in book piracy could be a smart corporate move

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by stumped

If a company wants to make life difficult for pirates, then streaming , plus android only is the way to go.

And be totally obnoxious making the content difficult for ordinary users. I think Mills & Boone/Harlequin has done this. As a publisher I would NEVER EVER give exclusivity to such parasites.
Subscription & and Streaming only services are parasites and exploitive.
Single platform cheats consumers, dampens innovation and feeds monopolies. It's not about protecting copyright, it's about either greed or stupidity.

Those are not moral ways to combat Copyright violation. DRM is wrong and so is the DMCA.
Publishers need to leave consumers alone and only go after industrial pirates. The people that pirate ARC and sell or offer "free" (often there is a sub), or get copies of movies /TV from studio or projection booth.
If you can read, see or hear it, then NO DRM, even unbroken DRM can protect it. It's fantasy that streaming prevent pirates. It only removes flexibility for ordinary consumers.

[stumped]

But like it or not, streaming is the future.
The need to own music has almost vanished. The need to own books will follow.
Overdrive already can stream.
I looked again at my rubbish rbdigital app. It can't. First it downloads the book then it tries to render it. And fails miserably with my current loan

[Uncle Robin]

Originally Posted by stumped

But like it or not, streaming is the future.
The need to own music has almost vanished. The need to own books will follow.

Many compelling reasons to "own" entertainment media remain. First, privacy - the right to enjoy one's content without feeding data suction engines. Second, the ability to enjoy said content offline, when disconnected. For me, that last is especially relevant to reading. I have tried browser-based reading and loathed the experience almost as much as I loathe audiobooks. So, as long as the option remains, I will be sure to retain both music and reading material offline, non-streamed.

[stumped]

I did use words like "almost", and will follow
The smart streaming providers bundle in just enough offline access to have it both ways
So my music comes from Spotify but I have enough offline playlists on hard drive to see me through an internet outage. Or I can have up to 1000 songs on a smartphone for offline use on journeys
Same with netflix, I like to have a few hours downloaded to tablet, just in case we lose internet , or electricity' or both.

If a reader app was well written ,I should have no idea if it's streaming or reading from a local drive. All that matters is that the words appear as needed, and I can search or skip when I choose to.
The benefit, or curse if you see it that way, of online reading is that you can look up words or facts, jump into X ray type analysis.... With moon reader on a tablet I can highlight something and get directly to wikipedia
Stuff that worked on paper but not so well in ebooks, like those old multiple choice adventures where you made a choice and were given your next page number, would work well if streamed.
And being able to jump in and out of high quality maps would enhance many lengthy sagas

Don't get me wrong, I like an offline, non interactive experience,. But I realise that is becoming a luddite , minority attitude

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by stumped

I did use words like "almost", and will follow
The smart streaming providers bundle in just enough offline access to have it both ways
So my music comes from Spotify but I have enough offline playlists on hard drive to see me through an internet outage. Or I can have up to 1000 songs on a smartphone for offline use on journeys
Same with netflix, I like to have a few hours downloaded to tablet, just in case we lose internet , or electricity' or both.

If a reader app was well written ,I should have no idea if it's streaming or reading from a local drive. All that matters is that the words appear as needed, and I can search or skip when I choose to.
The benefit, or curse if you see it that way, of online reading is that you can look up words or facts, jump into X ray type analysis.... With moon reader on a tablet I can highlight something and get directly to wikipedia
Stuff that worked on paper but not so well in ebooks, like those old multiple choice adventures where you made a choice and were given your next page number, would work well if streamed.
And being able to jump in and out of high quality maps would enhance many lengthy sagas

Don't get me wrong, I like an offline, non interactive experience,. But I realise that is becoming a luddite , minority attitude

Unfortunately, I think you are right that a majority prefer to stream. On the other hand, one can still buy music, movies and TV Shows. Heck, they still make music CD's, and DVD's for movies and TV shows. I think there is room for all of the above in the future. Most providers are looking to maximize their profits, so I suspect most content will continue to be available via multiple methods at least for my life time.

Library checkouts has the disadvantage that publishers are looking to maximize how much money they get, not maximize the number of freebies they provide to libraries and their patrons, so we are more likely to see check outs optimized for control rather than customer convenience, IMPO.

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by stumped

AWe know that a quick trip to alf will equip you to De DRM anything that comes via ade, but cracking a streaming only product is much harder.

Basically true, but there is a hardened DRM available for ADE books that OverDrive does not currently use, likely because it is incompatible with older devices. I could see the new KKR OverDrive striking a deal with publishers for better pricing in exchange for switching to locked down DRM.