Amazon uses DMCA to restrict where you can buy e-books

[tompe]

Originally Posted by radiationman

Amazon's DMCA take down to Mobileread looks like Amazon addressing library loaners... With that letter Amazon is making it very clear - you can only get content on the Kindle unless it's either from (Kindle store) or through (e-mail of supported files for conversion) Amazon...

Remember that it is DRM:ed content. And since they use there own format for DRM:ed content that was well known when people bought the device. It has always been clear that the only supported way to get DRM:ed content onto the device is to buy it from Amazon.

[volwrath]

You know the strange thing about all this is that I think that Amazon has a distinct advantage of having a huge selection of DRmed ebooks that can have the DRM stripped. The reason they opened up their ebook library to the iPhone is to get more sales. Now that their DRM can get stripped in so easy a fashion as long as the person has one of two devices, they really have an opportunity to be the defacto ebook standard because their ebooks are cheaper and can be read on any reader now. I think they are a little short sighted and will realize in the near future, that this will really make a difference much like .lit is still standing after microsoft has all but stopped supporting it.

sorry for al lthe runon sentences

[radiationman]

Originally Posted by tompe

Remember that it is DRM:ed content. And since they use there own format for DRM:ed content that was well known when people bought the device. It has always been clear that the only supported way to get DRM:ed content onto the device is to buy it from Amazon.

It is - and since library content isn't purchased I think a valid argument could be made that the folks pulling that over to the Kindle are in fact in violation of the DMCA... How many of those folks remove that content after 30 days or whenever the loan period is from their library?

[grisjuan]

Originally Posted by tompe

It has always been clear that the only supported way to get DRM:ed content onto the device is to buy it from Amazon.

I still draw a distinction between 'supported' and 'allowed'. Before this takedown notice it seemed that Amazon was going to let people read library books on the Kindle, but they would not help them do it. Now it seems Amazon is actively trying to prevent it.

[lisreed]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

I'm probably going to do the same thing. Not just because of this (mine is having problems). I had a 505 and sold it, looks like I should have kept it.

I'm going back to a sony 505 as well. I had sold mine but on the plus side I will be buying a blue one instead of silver this time around so I am happy about that.

I am very unhappy about amazon's behavior but its kind of the last straw. There were other reasons I was thinking about not keeping it including ghosting of the top and bottom all the time and not finding it comfortable to hold. The case I have weighs 6 ounces and for me personally holding a kindle in a case and having it feel like a hardback is just too heavy for me. My sony in its very light cover felt much better to me. Also library books are important to me and I feel eventually amazon will just pressure overdrive to not allow the pids at all. Also book prices I have really noticed have spiked 50%. Only about 1 in 10 of my wishlist new releases are even 9.99, most are around $15. Well I could pay that at the sony store!

So its going back and will be ordering another 505 this weekend.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by lisreed

I'm going back to a sony 505 as well. I had sold mine but on the plus side I will be buying a blue one instead of silver this time around so I am happy about that.

Anyone know if any of the B&M retailers sell it in blue? I had silver before and really wouldn't mind silver again, but wouldn't mind checking out the other colors in person.

[nekokami]

Originally Posted by radiationman

It is - and since library content isn't purchased I think a valid argument could be made that the folks pulling that over to the Kindle are in fact in violation of the DMCA... How many of those folks remove that content after 30 days or whenever the loan period is from their library?

The tool in question would leave the DRM intact while allowing the Kindle to read the file until the normal loan expiration date. This is not a DRM-removal tool.

[mmc_mac]

Wow, talk about a bubble buster....I just purchased a Kindle 1 via ebay and am waiting for it to arrive in the next day or so...I spent many days debating between the Kindle and the Sony 505...looks like I made a bad choice and should have stuck with my "gut" instinct that said go for the Sony. *sigh* Only semi-bright-side of things is that the Husband will definately be getting a Sony 505 now; so maybe we can just switch out devices when we read everything on "our" device.

I can say that most of the books we would buy would be via amazon so this isnt a big hit for me in that regards. What turns me off is the inability to use library books (would have like to have just tried them to form an opinion, guess that is out of the question now) and also being forced into an economic situation where there is no chance at competitive pricing, no one to keep their brethren in check.

Oh well...lesson learned...

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by mmc_mac

...(would have like to have just tried them to form an opinion, guess that is out of the question now)...

Well you still can. You just can't find info here. Since Amazon did this the script is starting to show up various other places. All they did was help spread it.

[Alisa]

Originally Posted by radiationman

Amazon's DMCA take down to Mobileread looks like Amazon addressing library loaners... With that letter Amazon is making it very clear - you can only get content on the Kindle unless it's either from (Kindle store) or through (e-mail of supported files for conversion) Amazon...

In all honesty, I didn't care about Amazon giving in to the Author's Guild over the text to speech this however is another story...

I doubt that was a huge issue. Didn't the letter included a URL to a thread about iPhone? I think they got worried with all the discussion about how owners of iPhones could put their content on other devices. Kindlepid and Kindlefix have been out for ages without them caring. Libraries for ebooks aren't really any more of a threat than physical libraries. The collections are small and you have to wait for the popular titles. I probably use the library more than most and I still buy the vast majority of my books from Amazon.

Besides, you can easily get library content on your Kindle without Kindlepid. You just use a different PID and use mobidedrm.

[RobbieClarken]

Originally Posted by nekokami

The tool in question would leave the DRM intact while allowing the Kindle to read the file until the normal loan expiration date. This is not a DRM-removal tool.

KindlePID can be used in combination MobiDeDRM to strip the DRM from Kindle books. It's possible that that is why Amazon issued the take-down notice.

[wallcraft]

Originally Posted by mmc_mac

What turns me off is the inability to use library books (would have like to have just tried them to form an opinion, guess that is out of the question now) and also being forced into an economic situation where there is no chance at competitive pricing, no one to keep their brethren in check.

The scripts are still just as available (and just as legal) as they always were. What is missing is the Visual Kindle Guide, which made learning how to use the tools much easier, and the individual help provided here if needed. Who knows how long these wiki pages will linger in Google cache, so you may want to search them out now.

On the price issue, I think the publishers are still the major road block. Amazon is cutting its margins to the bone, and they are doing so in the face of predatory ebook pricing by many publishers. There is a long term worry about pricing if Amazon gets a near monopoly, but I think the fact that Adobe DRM has been cracked makes it much more likely that Adobe (at least) will survive as an alternative to Amazon/MobiPocket.

[Daithi]

I think Amazon made a bonehead move, and I've enjoyed seeing them get some bad publicity. However, I wonder how many people use this tool simply so that they can view library books or purchase ebooks from sources other than Amazon.

My guess is that most people use these tools in conjuction with the mobidrdrm tool to strip the DRM. This doesn't mean I think people are doing anything wrong. There are legitimate reasons for stripping the DRM that have nothing to do with piracy. Foremost, is that stipping the DRM allows us to transfer books we have purchased to other readers that may come out in the future. Who wants to be locked into the Kindle forever? Is this against the "law"? Yes, I'm pretty sure it is, but I try to live my life by what is right and wrong, not what is lawful and unlawful -- although I'm not admitting to anything.

[SpiderMatt]

Originally Posted by volwrath

You know the strange thing about all this is that I think that Amazon has a distinct advantage of having a huge selection of DRmed ebooks that can have the DRM stripped. The reason they opened up their ebook library to the iPhone is to get more sales. Now that their DRM can get stripped in so easy a fashion as long as the person has one of two devices, they really have an opportunity to be the defacto ebook standard because their ebooks are cheaper and can be read on any reader now. I think they are a little short sighted and will realize in the near future, that this will really make a difference much like .lit is still standing after microsoft has all but stopped supporting it.

sorry for al lthe runon sentences

I think companies like Amazon and Microsoft must know that DRM stripping is good for certain areas of business. I don't know exactly what they're thinking about when they uses patches and take-down notices to make it harder to strip DRM but they know it doesn't stop it from happening. And from a business standpoint, I would expect that they might wonder what the content providers will do if no effort is exerted to keep DRM stripping from happening. It's clear Amazon wants to dominate the e-book market with Apple-like control but these tools and discussions about them are just going to spring up in other places. There's is no way anyone educated about this market would not know that.

That said, Amazon has still made a great reading device. As annoying as their tactics are, I wouldn't tell anyone not to buy a Kindle because of it. It's a losing battle, first of all. Amazon has the most press. Many people who know of e-book readers only know about the Kindle and if they know about the Sony and/or other devices they probably want the Kindle just because it's the most popular. This is how the mainstream operates. I know many people here are happy with their various readers but we're not the mainstream. People more familiar with tech usually have higher or different standards and know what devices are capable of doing and what they should do. I enjoyed my Sony before it broke. I was perfectly content with it. I just think Amazon has made a superior device for my personal desires.

Since fighting the Kindle hype is a losing battle and the fact that I like Amazon's Kindle, I would rather educate everyone I know who gets one. I will personally give them the tools if I have to. I'll show them where to get them, where to get information about them, how to operate them, why DRM is evil and should never be accepted, etc. This is what forced the music industry to change. People didn't stop buying Apple products because for many people Apple had built the best device (personally, I'm one of those tech geeks I mentioned before and I hate iPod for the most part), they just took the DRM off their music or got it from sources without DRM for free. Now MP3s are sold at almost every online music store. This is what needs to happen with e-books and I think it will be unavoidable once e-books become more popular but there needs to be people who are ready and willing to educate others about these types of tools. Sites like this exist to increase consumer choice, whether it's the original intent of these sites or not. Choosing to not support Amazon financially is a great personal choice if Amazon's tactics make you too uncomfortable to continue purchasing from them but that won't change things. Buying from Amazon, stripping DRM, and teaching all your friends how to do the same will have a much stronger effect.

[InlawBiker]

Originally Posted by mmc_mac

Wow, talk about a bubble buster....I just purchased a Kindle 1 via ebay and am waiting for it to arrive in the next day or so...I spent many days debating between the Kindle and the Sony 505...looks like I made a bad choice and should have stuck with my "gut" instinct that said go for the Sony. *sigh* Only semi-bright-side of things is that the Husband will definately be getting a Sony 505 now; so maybe we can just switch out devices when we read everything on "our" device.
Oh well...lesson learned...

Well mmc, I'm in the same boat as you - I researched long and hard, liked both the Sony & Kindle device and bought a used Kindle 1. I have also been dismayed at their actions.

Anyway, my feeling is this - I bought the device, I own it, and I'll put on it what I choose. If I alter library ebook files so they work on the device it's none of Amazon's business. I got the book from my library, not Amazon, and I never altered the Kindle's software. Beside that I have no agreement with Amazon - I bought my Kindle from a private seller and owe nothing to them whatsoever.

Jeff Bezos can come to my house and personally demand I stop reading library books on the Kindle, and I'll tell him to take a flying F. I don't live terribly far from him and he's welcome to try.

Next time I time to buy a book, after going through all of this, why would I buy it from Amazon? Somebody give me a good reason because I can't think of one.