Widows and Orphans

[odamizu]

Originally Posted by Hitch

No, it's NOT nice and it torques my butt that I have to revise it, if I want to enjoy it without thinking that every other page is the end of a chapter or scene. Irritating as hell.

Hitch

Oh, Hitch, you just made my day

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by odamizu

Oh, Hitch, you just made my day

Well, Oda, I'm happy as hell if it did, but you have a weird sense of humor! :-) LOL!

Hitch

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Tex2002ans

Can you link to that?

Here is the link to the Kobo patch thread for the 4.19.x firmware.

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=325572

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by jackie_w

I'll let Jon answer about the patch option, but you might like to know that you can also do it via the calibre KoboTouch & KoboTouchExtended driver without any hacking. See here for details.

But that's only if you read KePub. I prefer ePub for your regular novel because the typesetting is much better.

[jackie_w]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

But that's only if you read KePub.

No, you're wrong about that. The calibre KoboTouch/KoboTouchExtended drivers do not distinguish between epub and kepub if you have configured them to make auto-changes to widows/orphans on-the-fly during send-to-device.

If you only read kepub then you don't really need this option because the kepub renderer either doesn't use widows/orphans or always sets them to 1 (I don't know which).

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by jhowell

Related to this topic, the page-break-inside:avoid property is usually stripped out during conversion to KFX. However I have found that it is usually carried through and functions as expected if it is used in conjunction with float.

I have an update on this. The latest version of the Kindle Previewer, 3.36, no longer requires float to be used in order to have the page-break-inside:avoid property retained during conversion. I played around with it a bit and noticed some inconsistent behavior.

Regular paragraphs of text can be kept together in their entirety.

Applying this property to a span appears to do nothing.

Applying it to a div containing multiple paragraphs and a full width image causes them to all be kept together when shown in the Previewer. However on a Kindle running the 5.13.3 firmware the individual paragraphs are kept together but page breaks still occur between them.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by jhowell

I have an update on this. The latest version of the Kindle Previewer, 3.36, no longer requires float to be used in order to have the page-break-inside:avoid property retained during conversion. I played around with it a bit and noticed some inconsistent behavior.

Regular paragraphs of text can be kept together in their entirety.

Applying this property to a span appears to do nothing.

Applying it to a div containing multiple paragraphs and a full width image causes them to all be kept together when shown in the Previewer. However on a Kindle running the 5.13.3 firmware the individual paragraphs are kept together but page breaks still occur between them.

So...in KP, it looks as though it will stay together, but in MOBI format (?), sideloaded, it breaks? Is that correct?

But we don't yet know what happens in a for-sale book that's been through the PW? (Publishing Workflow)?

Hitch

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by Hitch

So...in KP, it looks as though it will stay together, but in MOBI format (?), sideloaded, it breaks? Is that correct?

The significant change is that page-break-inside:avoid is retained in conversion to KPF/KFX format when in the past it was discarded unless float was also present.

My test was done using an EPUB converted for Enhanced Typesetting in the Kindle Previewer and using a sideloaded KFX file on a Kindle Oasis which produced from the KPF file exported by the Previewer.

I did not test MOBI or KF8 since I don't think anything has changed with the renderers for those formats. As far as I know they ignore page-break-inside:avoid, but I would be happy to find out if I am wrong about that.

Originally Posted by Hitch

But we don't yet know what happens in a for-sale book that's been through the PW? (Publishing Workflow)?

That is correct. I don't yet know what happens there.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by jhowell

The significant change is that page-break-inside:avoid is retained in conversion to KPF/KFX format when in the past it was discarded unless float was also present.

My test was done using an EPUB converted for Enhanced Typesetting in the Kindle Previewer and using a sideloaded KFX file on a Kindle Oasis which produced from the KPF file exported by the Previewer.

I did not test MOBI or KF8 since I don't think anything has changed with the renderers for those formats. As far as I know they ignore page-break-inside:avoid, but I would be happy to find out if I am wrong about that.

That is correct. I don't yet know what happens there.

Gotcha, thanks for all the testing and info, it's MUCH appreciated.

Hitch

[RbnJrg]

Originally Posted by jhowell

I have an update on this. The latest version of the Kindle Previewer, 3.36, no longer requires float to be used in order to have the page-break-inside:avoid property retained during conversion. I played around with it a bit and noticed some inconsistent behavior.

Regular paragraphs of text can be kept together in their entirety.

Applying this property to a span appears to do nothing.

Applying it to a div containing multiple paragraphs and a full width image causes them to all be kept together when shown in the Previewer. However on a Kindle running the 5.13.3 firmware the individual paragraphs are kept together but page breaks still occur between them.

What about "page-break-after: avoid" with multiple <h#> tags? If I have, for example:

<h2>My Title</h2>

<h3>My SubTitle</h3>

<p>Some text here...</p>

with "page-break-after: avoid" aplied to <h2>, <h3>; does all that stay together (I mean <h2> + <h3> and at least one line of <p>)?

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by RbnJrg

What about "page-break-after: avoid" with multiple <h#> tags?

As far as I can tell page-break-before:avoid and page-break-after:avoid are completely missing from all of the Kindle formats.

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by Hitch

But we don't yet know what happens in a for-sale book that's been through the PW? (Publishing Workflow)?

I have an update on this. I can confirm that the current PW supports page-break-inside:avoid for books rendered with Enhanced Typesetting.

I took a random sample of nine recently published novels. Four of those nine books contain the KFX equivalent coding for page-break-inside:avoid. For two of those I looked at the KF8 format HTML and was able to verify that the publishers had coded those books with page-break-inside:avoid in some styles and that those had carried though to KFX format.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by jhowell

I have an update on this. I can confirm that the current PW supports page-break-inside:avoid for books rendered with Enhanced Typesetting.

I took a random sample of nine recently published novels. Four of those nine books contain the KFX equivalent coding for page-break-inside:avoid. For two of those I looked at the KF8 format HTML and was able to verify that the publishers had coded those books with page-break-inside:avoid in some styles and that those had carried though to KFX format.

Hmph.

Well...hmph. I guess that means we'll have to include it in places where we previously didn't, as needed; we've had it for dog's years, as future-proofing.

Hitch

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by Hitch

...we've had it for dog's years, as future-proofing.

The examples where I saw it yesterday were mostly from stock stylesheets. The most common usage was to prevent page breaks within headings. While adding that does not hurt, it probably also does not help much either since the default KFX widow/orphan handling will prevent page breaks for headings of three lines or less anyway.

[JSWolf]

I never understood the read for adding CSS to avoid page breaks for headers (aka chapter headings).