Oasis 3 not showing Cloud Collections properly

[Deskisamess]

Originally Posted by shalym

I've never had the contents of a collection automatically load onto my Kindle, and I wouldn't want it to. I can *see* the contents of the collection if I choose to view "all" with the wifi turned on, but only the ones that I have explicitly chosen are downloaded to the device. Can you point to an account of the books being automatically downloaded? I've never seen it happen, and never heard of it happening either until now.

Shari

Yep, I've been using Kindles since 2009. Books never download automatically, even those in a collection. The star shows which collection is actually downloaded on that device.

I just looked at my Cloud Collections that are not downloaded on my Oasis. I tapped the 3 dots to the right of the non-downloaded collection, it says Pearl Buck, In Cloud: 12 Items, Downloaded: 6 Items

The choices are "Add/Remove Items", "Rename", "Add to Downloaded", and "Delete"

I picked "Add to Downloaded" so the Collection is now on the Oasis, but only the 6 books that were already on the Device are in the Collection. The other 6 show, because I'm looking at ALL, but if I want those other 6 books to download, I must tap them to select them to download. They won't download just because I downloaded the Collection.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by Deskisamess

Yep, I've been using Kindles since 2009. Books never download automatically, even those in a collection. The star shows which collection is actually downloaded on that device.

I just looked at my Cloud Collections that are not downloaded on my Oasis. I tapped the 3 dots to the right of the non-downloaded collection, it says Pearl Buck, In Cloud: 12 Items, Downloaded: 6 Items

The choices are "Add/Remove Items", "Rename", "Add to Downloaded", and "Delete"

I picked "Add to Downloaded" so the Collection is now on the Oasis, but only the 6 books that were already on the Device are in the Collection. The other 6 show, because I'm looking at ALL, but if I want those other 6 books to download, I must tap them to select them to download. They won't download just because I downloaded the Collection.

This is exactly how it's always worked for me, as well.

Shari

[NullNix]

Originally Posted by shalym

This is exactly how it's always worked for me, as well.

Hm, I have an Oasis manual here that says the opposite. Maybe this is a planned feature they never implemented, but if so it's odd that it got documented given how many features that *were* implemented never got any documentation.

... actually, considering how many features I've implemented in things over the years and never documented, perhaps it's not that odd. Programmers just suck at documentation

[Deskisamess]

Originally Posted by NullNix

Hm, I have an Oasis manual here that says the opposite. Maybe this is a planned feature they never implemented, but if so it's odd that it got documented given how many features that *were* implemented never got any documentation.

... actually, considering how many features I've implemented in things over the years and never documented, perhaps it's not that odd. Programmers just suck at documentation

I'd love to see the wording you're referring to. I don't see anything in the two Oasis user manuals on the Amazon Help files that explain it that way.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by NullNix

Hm, I have an Oasis manual here that says the opposite. Maybe this is a planned feature they never implemented, but if so it's odd that it got documented given how many features that *were* implemented never got any documentation.

... actually, considering how many features I've implemented in things over the years and never documented, perhaps it's not that odd. Programmers just suck at documentation

Can you tell me exactly where in the manual it says that? I'm looking at the manual now, and this is what it says:

Cloud Collections

Cloud Collections enable you to organize the content on your Kindle Oasis into customized categories that are stored in the Cloud. Your collections are synced between other devices and reading apps that are registered to the same Amazon account and that support Cloud Collections. You can add as many items as you like to each collection, including books and personal documents. Items can also be added to more than one collection. Audible content cannot be added to collections; however you can add the Kindle book version. For information on devices and apps that support Cloud Collections, go to www.amazon.com/devicesupport.

To create a new collection:
1. On the Home screen, tap Your Library in the top left of the screen.
2. On your library page, tap the Menu icon.
3. Select Create New Collection.
4. Use the keyboard to type a name for the collection, then tap OK. A list of the items on your Kindle that can be added to a collection displays.
5. Tap the checkbox next to an item's title to add it to the collection, then tap Done when finished. You can add or remove items at a later time.

Tap the Menu icon on the collection’s cover when in Grid view or on the right side of the screen when in List view, then tap Add/Remove Items. You can also view this option by pressing and holding on the collection's name or cover. Other options include Rename, Remove from Device, and Delete. To exit a collection, tap the Home or Back icon. To filter the content in your library by collection, tap All Items or the currently selected filter, then Collections.

Collections downloaded to the device appear in your All Items, Books, Comics, Periodicals,and Docs views. To download a collection, tap the Menu icon on the collection's cover when in Grid view, or on the right side of the screen when in List view, then tap Add to Downloaded. You can also view this option by pressing and holding on the collection's cover (or name if using Listview). Note that this setting is device-specific and will not be saved when you deregister your Kindle. To remove a collection from your device, tap the Menu icon on the collection’s cover when in Grid view or on the right side of the screen when in List view, then tap Remove from Device. You can also view this option by pressing and holding on the collection's cover or title.

Tips:
•Deleting a collection that was created on a device or in a reading app that supports Cloud Collections, such as your Kindle, will delete it from the Cloud and other devices or reading apps that support Cloud Collections and are registered to the same Amazon account.
•Deleting a collection from your Kindle does not remove the content stored on your device or in the Cloud. Items previously placed into the collection that are stored on your Kindle will appear on the Home screen and in the Cloud after the collection is deleted.

I don't see anything in there saying that the contents of the collection will be downloaded to the device. Maybe it's in an older version of the Oasis Manual?

[NullNix]

Originally Posted by shalym

I don't see anything in there saying that the contents of the collection will be downloaded to the device. Maybe it's in an older version of the Oasis Manual?

Yeah, checking the one with the latest date on my Oasis 3, the wording is gone. The older one (light cover, not dark, with the same version number! Thanks, Amazon) implies but does not outright state that selecting "Download This Collection" will also download the content: I note that even the menu item name has changed since then, to "Add to Downloaded", which is a bit less ambiguous.

I guess they changed things because people were assuming a feature was present that in fact wasn't...

[Deskisamess]

There is also this notice on the Help pages:

"Important: Deleting a collection does not delete any of the content stored on your device or in Your Kindle Library. After a collection is deleted, the items that were in it appear on the Home screen if you sort items by Collections."

Content "in" a collection isn't like files on a computer that are in a folder. Collections are just tags, not locations, which is why a book can be in more than one collection but isn't duplicated.

[NullNix]

Originally Posted by Deskisamess

There is also this notice on the Help pages:

"Important: Deleting a collection does not delete any of the content stored on your device or in Your Kindle Library. After a collection is deleted, the items that were in it appear on the Home screen if you sort items by Collections."

Content "in" a collection isn't like files on a computer that are in a folder. Collections are just tags, not locations, which is why a book can be in more than one collection but isn't duplicated.

Indeed -- but just because deleting a collection doesn't delete the content, it does not follow that downloading a collection that already exists doesn't also download the content (just as a convenience). Though it seems it doesn't, and possibly never has, though I have vague memories of this working back in the Oasis 1 days. But that was years ago and I have enough trouble remembering what happened last week

[Deskisamess]

Before Cloud Collections, it was possible to download collections from other devices on your account. You first had to download all of the books, then you'd access your Archive (now called ALL) and select Add Other Device Collections.

The already downloaded books would then be sorted into those Collections on the new Kindle.

But books have never actually resided inside a collection. That's why you don't get the books when you use the current method of Cloud Collections. It's a tag or cross-reference, the files aren't in the Collection.

[tomsem]

There is no automatic download of collection to Kindles, whether collection is Starred or not.

Kindle for ios and I think Android — maybe Fire? — have a download all button that does this, but that is not and has never been a feature of Kindle.

Moreover there is no need to Star collections to be able to use them. They are implicit. If you Star them then they show up as items in Library mixed in with the books, but I’ve never used it (once it became optional with Cloud Collections). This thread is evidence that it is confusing. The mobile apps (and Fire) have a different way of showing them, and I like it much better (well. Kindle for iOS should let you sort the collection contents like everything else can.)

[Deskisamess]

A Collection will have a star if that collection is on the Kindle. It's not something you do.

[tomsem]

Originally Posted by NullNix

Hm, I have an Oasis manual here that says the opposite. Maybe this is a planned feature they never implemented, but if so it's odd that it got documented given how many features that *were* implemented never got any documentation.

... actually, considering how many features I've implemented in things over the years and never documented, perhaps it's not that odd. Programmers just suck at documentation

I think you are being unfair to programmers. They are usually not the people tasked with writing documentation, much less reading or reviewing it. It’s not their fault if someone gives them the task.

But the paragraph in the User’s Guide starting with ‘Collections downloaded to the device...’ is horribly confusing. I would not have used the term ‘download’, and it assumes you are in Grid ‘Sort’ (as if you never changed it from default).

But in fairness, writing clear documentation is made more difficult by the general inconsistency of the user interface, which it appears they will never redesign out of fear that longtime users might die of shock.

[NullNix]

Originally Posted by tomsem

But in fairness, writing clear documentation is made more difficult by the general inconsistency of the user interface, which it appears they will never redesign out of fear that longtime users might die of shock.

Lookiing at the reaction of people here to even tiny changes, I don't think they're wrong

[shalym]

I'm curious if OtinG, the original poster, has had any luck with his collections? Or does he still just think we don't understand the issue, that we "lack the imagination and vision to properly analyze the issue"

Shari