Will Paper books fade away?

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

This is why we are all doomed...

We're doomed anyway, whatever we do

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

We're doomed anyway, whatever we do

So, I guess, might as well take the planet with us, eh?

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

So, I guess, might as well take the planet with us, eh?

LOL I would never suggest that, Steve. Now when do they start them colonies on the moon?

[dmaul1114]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

This is why we are all doomed...

I try not to waste paper (use both sides of scratch paper, use backs of old printouts as scratch paper, print articles etc. double sided), and I recycle every single piece of paper I use and don't need anymore.

So we're not doomed because of people like me.

Plus I'm not having kids, so that's saves a ton of paper, carbon etc. for generations to come compared to you breeders popping out crotch droppings left and right and contributing to over population!

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

Plus I'm not having kids, so that's saves a ton of paper, carbon etc. for generations to come compared to you breeders popping out crotch droppings left and right and contributing to over population!

I didn't say that! I didn't say that!

(I don't have kids either. So there!)

[Stringer]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

No, I don't usually rummage through the trash to find other peoples' thrown-away notes... but digging through trashcans looking for note-paper would take longer than getting my PDA, so what's the point in that?

But the PDA eats electricity. Or do you produce that with some nature friendly method like solar power? You could make your trip to the trashcans once per month and store the paper for later use

[thibaulthalpern]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

As I said, it's not the electronics themselves, but the amount of them treated as disposable and thrown away fully functioning, that is the problem. This problem is also solved by multi-use devices, so consumers don't need a device for every single task. Efficient methods of production, use, recycling and proper disposal make a huge difference, and need to be applied to the electronics industry badly. When they are, there will be no doubt about the economic and environmental superiority of electronic devices.

The same thing can be said about paper products then. You could have environmentally better ways to produce it and in fact some paper mills like Clairefontaine paper for instance, are environmentally friendly.

The environmental reason you cite that ebook is better than paper doesn't really hold then, because the manufacturing process, use process, recycle process and so forth are all directly applicable to paper production and usage.

[thibaulthalpern]

Teachers of writing have noted that digital forms of writing (ie., computer screens) have influenced ways to learn writing in a way that brings new problems for teachers to solve. For instance, re-writing and drafting and marking up on the computer is not as easy as it is on paper. Furthermore, because the computer can only present essentially one screen at a time as opposed to in the physical environment where you can physically manipulate a paper you're writing into various chunks and shift them around easily, it facilitates the process of writing that is very difficult to do on the computer.

Now, this is not to say we should get rid of computers. It's to say that certain parts of the writing process when done on paper may be more beneficial to some writers and other parts done on the computer are more beneficial to other writers.

For instance, when I am outlining and drafting portions of my text, I often do it on paper. I also find that the physical act of writing with a pen can help me to get through some writing blocks in which typing on a computer (which is essentially button pushing) does not facilitate that process.

This is another reason why I do not think that digital (say ebooks) and paper is an either/or proposition but rather a both-and condition will facilitate our reading, writing, and comprehension better than just sticking to paper or just to the digital forms.

Why does it have to be just one or the other? That is, what does it have to be ditigal or paper? Let it be both!

[Stringer]

Originally Posted by thibaulthalpern

Why does it have to be just one or the other? That is, what does it have to be ditigal or paper? Let it be both!

Like Mr. dmaul1114 said: what ever works for You.

[thibaulthalpern]

Originally Posted by Stringer

Like Mr. dmaul1114 said: what ever works for You.

My response is to those who feel that paper should disappear.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by thibaulthalpern

The environmental reason you cite that ebook is better than paper doesn't really hold then, because the manufacturing process, use process, recycle process and so forth are all directly applicable to paper production and usage.

Except... that even given efficient use, a book is printed once, holds exactly one book, and will not hold more... no one erases a book and prints a new one on it... while a PDA can hold hundreds, even thousands of books. That's hundreds to thousands of books versus one PDA. And when a PDA discards a book, it is not landfilled. So the environmental footprint of a single device does in fact trump the much larger footprint of hundreds to thousands of books.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by thibaulthalpern

Why does it have to be just one or the other? That is, what does it have to be ditigal or paper? Let it be both!

Economy. Environment. Efficiency. All of those things lean towards the digital (obviously a debatable point, but one which I am confident will be QED to all soon).

The reasons you give to keep paper are, to be specific, personal preferences, as opposed to absolutes. They are not concrete reasons why we have to keep paper. And while you may not want to relearn your ways of doing things, the generations behind you have already learned the new ways, and are swiftly abandoning most of the old ways, leaving an open door for the change. In other words, if it doesn't happen while we're here, it'll happen soon after we're gone.

Simply liking something isn't enough to keep that something from changing, especially if there is new, viable alternative that has advantages over the old thing (or, at least, fewer disadvantages). In that light, the issue here is: How long will it take before the advantages of paper are clearly outweighed by the advantages of digital, and digital pushes paper unmistakenly into a niche market?

I give it two generations max... more likely one.

[Tattncat]

Originally Posted by DixieGal

Mine all got tossed out 2 wks ago. Sneaked them into the library's drop-box while they were closed on Sunday. Ah, sweet space and freedom!

All Right, Dixie! That is exactly what I did my expendable pBooks. Now the only ones I have left are pink sheets and collector copies.

[Stringer]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

I give it two generations max... more likely one.

The two would be my guess too.
What I have understood from the news, at some lower level schools they have already began using laptops instead extensive use of paper books and such. When those children come to the age of having own children, they probably teach them to the electronic ways without even bothering with papers. Problem is, such educational systems aren't so common yet and most of the other people doesn't have a clue about full benefits of mobile electronics. Devices itself haven't been on such technical level that they would have been able to make a big break through on their own. Mini-laptops have began to change that little bit, but there is still much to do with the technical development and especially marketing before we could expect to everyone abandon the old ways.

On the other hand. Just 20 years ago, very few (maybe even none) of us was able to predict how common the cell phones would be today.

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by Sonist

Anyway, I am glad we agree "that paper will dissapear eventually." This was the whole point of the discussion.

I sincerely doubt that. Though the use of paper books will dwindle, I don't think it will disappear completely. But, I think the paper used for note-taking will.

Originally Posted by Stringer

How do you know the people you give those post-its don't throw them away?

I never throw away my post-its! I have a better purpose for them. They are square and can be made into awesome geometric figures with Origami...

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

I never give people notes on post-its. If I don't tell them directly, I e-mail them. They are exclusively for my use, and only use when I cannot jot something into my PDA (which is usually right there with me) or my PC. That's why a single pad lasts so long.

No, I don't usually rummage through the trash to find other peoples' thrown-away notes... but digging through trashcans looking for note-paper would take longer than getting my PDA, so what's the point in that?

I agree, though I never throw away paper that still has some white spaces on it... And people aren't using enough post-its, I still need around 40 more pieces to create a larger figure...

Originally Posted by primbs

I wonder about the integrity of ebooks.

"What is really of concern, as those of us who have read our Orwell know, is that without hard copy books can be changed, doctored and manipulated at will to suit any political climate or support any bureaucratic or government agenda. The government is already dismantling and downgrading our libraries."

Actually, I think with the advance of electronic books, one part of the problems of (American) libraries can be solved. I was shocked when I heard about books being banned from the library because they showed a different side of a story. Or books that were defaced (parts of pages blacked out), because people didn't agree on what it said. With the internet you can always get everything. Unless your government will block those access points as well (like in China).

Originally Posted by Stringer

But the PDA eats electricity. Or do you produce that with some nature friendly method like solar power?

Not yet, but we will get solar panels on the roof. I agree with Steve, the footprint of an electronical device is much smaller than paper. If I look at myself, since I bought my first ebook reader, I've bought about 70% less paper books. And I'm now using my second device (actually my third, but my second is in use by my husband, so it's being recycled )