Pricing and Policies ... what is fair?

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

I would expect that it will come down to a combination of laws, contracts and demand. Some locations have laws and regulations that add cost and the contracts between the author and the publisher can vary quite a bit from country to country.

I know it can vary quite a bit, but 3 or 4 times the difference on occasions, is impossible to justify. I expect to pay more, but nowhere near that much.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by Timboli

The only thing I feel that might work, is public knowledge and shaming, maybe a prick to the conscience.

For what should they feel ashamed? For asking a price you think is too high? Welcome to Planet Earth.

Asking a high price for something that's not essential to surviving is nothing unusual in itself and no one will feel ashamed because of it. You can write these posts till the end of time, it won't help. No business will change their business practice because an anonymous poster complains about it. If you want them to rethink their pricing strategy, then you should 1) not buy their products and 2) let them know what you, personally, think about it. Even better when several people let them know, but they must be Australians who are directly affected by said strategy. People who live in other countries don't care what price your local publisher asks for their books, and the local publisher wouldn't care what a foreigner thinks, who never buys anything from them.

And you don't need a foreign credit card to buy ebooks. It depends on where you buy from. Kobo, for example, won't complain about your payment method, at least that's been my experience. And even at Amazon you can use gift cards to buy Kindle books.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by Timboli

...
If only that were so. I have already looked deep into this and tried a few things. For me to purchase from the USA for instance, I would need an American a street address and credit card. VPN is not enough on its own.

I have spoken with American friends and we have considered having a joint account that I can use, but when you look deeper it becomes problematical, so I haven't bothered.

...

That's the method that I used to buy books in the UK Amazon store, I had a friend who lived in Wales. I bought her an Amazon gift card and then she would buy ebooks in an account that had one of my Kindles associated with it. The account had her address. Of course, I only used it to get a handful of books that were available in the UK but not the US, I wasn't particularly worried about the cost. No real complications. You don't actually have to use VPN anymore. Personally, I see no difference between this and buying a book then shipping it to you.

[crich70]

I put my thoughts in bold letters.

Originally Posted by Timboli

Maybe, maybe not.
But that is like saying no protests are ever worthwhile.
Me, I think the more that others know about aberrant behavior, the better.


Ah, but isn't what is aberrant also in the eye of the beholder? I may think that sitting in an outdoor stadium (half dressed) in Dec. with half of me painted blue and half yellow would be aberrant behavior, but to a dyed in the wool sports fan it's par for the course.


If only that were so. I have already looked deep into this and tried a few things. For me to purchase from the USA for instance, I would need an American a street address and credit card. VPN is not enough on its own.

That's more than I know about it as I've never tried to buy through another country.


I have spoken with American friends and we have considered having a joint account that I can use, but when you look deeper it becomes problematical, so I haven't bothered.


Probably a few other headaches that would be unexpected as well.


I could, but I have this notion, that respect is a 2-way street, and at the moment I feel disrespected, and I don't engage with others that disrespect. They know what they have done, and it would be foolish to imagine otherwise.
Ah if only it were that easy. It should be but often isn't.

Maybe .... but then again, it could just increase the angst, and I might regret saying something.

The only thing I feel that might work, is public knowledge and shaming, maybe a prick to the conscience.

You always take the chance when you stand up about something of being found in the wrong by the majority. And even when you are in the right about something you can still end up feeling guilty about having said something.

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

For what should they feel ashamed? For asking a price you think is too high? Welcome to Planet Earth.

I never said 'think too high', there is no doubt.
If an American can buy the same ebook at a standard price that is a third or a quarter of what I am being expected to pay, there is no think about it, especially when there is no difference, no translation needed.

And just for the record, if the ebook in question is part of a series, and the other earlier books, and often even later ones are at a much more acceptable and reasonable price, then some kind of bad behavior is going on. In short they are attempting to take unfair advantage of the customer, something they should indeed feel ashamed about.

Asking a high price for something that's not essential to surviving is nothing unusual in itself and no one will feel ashamed because of it. You can write these posts till the end of time, it won't help. No business will change their business practice because an anonymous poster complains about it. If you want them to rethink their pricing strategy, then you should 1) not buy their products and 2) let them know what you, personally, think about it. Even better when several people let them know, but they must be Australians who are directly affected by said strategy. People who live in other countries don't care what price your local publisher asks for their books, and the local publisher wouldn't care what a foreigner thinks, who never buys anything from them.

Not relevant really, we are shining a spotlight on bad behavior. Customers don't exist in a vacuum, and publishers have to care about reputation just as much as anyone else.

And once again, just for the record. I don't buy at the shameful price, but it becomes very tricky when you need that book as part of a series, as it isn't just about the book, it is about the other books too.

Like I said before, respect is a two-way street. If you treat me badly, insult my intelligence, try to take unfair advantage of me, why should I engage with you. It is not as if you don't know what you are doing.

[MGlitch]

Because unless you and others in Australia communicate to them the reason you aren’t buying they can ascribe it to many different reasons.

As to why the costs are higher for all you know there might be a reason. Maybe there’s fees in distribution rights, maybe there are tariffs on imports, etc.

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by crich70

Ah, but isn't what is aberrant also in the eye of the beholder? I may think that sitting in an outdoor stadium (half dressed) in Dec. with half of me painted blue and half yellow would be aberrant behavior, but to a dyed in the wool sports fan it's par for the course.

You always take the chance when you stand up about something of being found in the wrong by the majority. And even when you are in the right about something you can still end up feeling guilty about having said something.

I am not talking about something that is some personal choice, that doesn't really have much of an impact on another person. It is much more personal than that. It is about treating other people in society, badly ... just for financial gain or power.

So aberrant is doing something that is not really acceptable, that involves greed and selfishness and just general lack of caring. In short, that behavior doesn't lead to being a respectable member of society. You are not playing your part when it comes to balance and goodwill, and helping the society you are part of, to thrive. Too self-serving is another description.

The only thing I am likely to feel guilty about in this instance, is keeping my mouth closed about the bad behavior of others. Especially as I am not as impacted by this, as many others would be. Many of course are too scared to speak out or feel, perhaps justified, that they don't know the right things to say. Those of us who can then, should. Speak up on their behalf as well as ours.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by Timboli

Not relevant really, we are shining a spotlight on bad behavior. Customers don't exist in a vacuum, and publishers have to care about reputation just as much as anyone else.

And once again, just for the record. I don't buy at the shameful price, but it becomes very tricky when you need that book as part of a series, as it isn't just about the book, it is about the other books too.

Like I said before, respect is a two-way street. If you treat me badly, insult my intelligence, try to take unfair advantage of me, why should I engage with you. It is not as if you don't know what you are doing.

Well, the way I see it, you don't actually want to do anything to remedy the situation, either for yourself or in general. You just want to have endless discussions about it. That's fine, but why should people in other countries care about the high book prices in your country? It's something you (Australians) have to tackle among yourselves. If you want to, of course.

Sorry if this seemed a bit harsh. I just don't understand your refusing all the practical solutions (which you have done repeatedly) and continuing to post on the subject at the same time. Looks very like you're just enjoying yourself. Maybe I'm just too pragmatical a person to understand your viewpoint.

[MGlitch]

Originally Posted by Timboli

The only thing I am likely to feel guilty about in this instance, is keeping my mouth closed about the bad behavior of others. Especially as I am not as impacted by this, as many others would be. Many of course are too scared to speak out or feel, perhaps justified, that they don't know the right things to say. Those of us who can then, should. Speak up on their behalf as well as ours.

The publishers are not mafia they aren't going to send hitmen to off you for saying you feel their prices are too high.

You are seriously over dramatizing what you're doing here, and what the publishers are doing.

Is it wrong to set higher prices? Possibly, but only if their costs of selling to you aren't also higher.

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by MGlitch

Because unless you and others in Australia communicate to them the reason you aren’t buying they can ascribe it to many different reasons.

As to why the costs are higher for all you know there might be a reason. Maybe there’s fees in distribution rights, maybe there are tariffs on imports, etc.

Can you truly see that that is applicable to something that is three or four times the price. If we were discussing less, I would not even be posting.

I am also not talking about average costs. I am talking about very specific instances out of the norm.

You are talking like they have no clue. How can that possibly be? Just not logical.

If 3 books in a series have the scenario where the first and third cost $8 each and the second one costs over $24, what would be you conclusion? They all have the tariff etc factors you mention. So why is one so vastly different?

[MGlitch]

Originally Posted by Timboli

Can you truly see that that is applicable to something that is three or four times the price. If we were discussing less, I would not even be posting.

I am also not talking about average costs. I am talking about very specific instances out of the norm.

You are talking like they have no clue. How can that possibly be? Just not logical.

If 3 books in a series have the scenario where the first and third cost $8 each and the second one costs over $24, what would be you conclusion? They all have the tariff etc factors you mention. So why is one so vastly different?

Regardless if you don’t communicate your reasons to them they aren’t going to change. Especially if it’s select cases with specific authors.

You’re clearly passionate about the issue. But posting here is essentially shouting into the wind for all the change it’s going to affect. It’s doubtful you’ll get anyone not affected by this to care enough to change their buying habits when you refuse to tell the publishers your reasons. Even then it’s rather unlikely for a variety of reasons.

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Well, the way I see it, you don't actually want to do anything to remedy the situation, either for yourself or in general. You just want to have endless discussions about it. That's fine, but why should people in other countries care about the high book prices in your country? It's something you (Australians) have to tackle among yourselves. If you want to, of course.

Sorry if this seemed a bit harsh. I just don't understand your refusing all the practical solutions (which you have done repeatedly) and continuing to post on the subject at the same time. Looks very like you're just enjoying yourself. Maybe I'm just too pragmatical a person to understand your viewpoint.

If I could sidestep the issue I would. I don't see these remedies you are suggesting. if they worked or had a chance of working I would try them, if practical.

So unlike you and a few others, I see my posting as actually doing something rather than nothing. However I am under no illusions of any quick fix. You don't change things though, by just sitting on a fence and saying nothing.

You might see it as endless discussions, I see it as responding to others, after I have made my points. Attempting to clarify misunderstandings and the like, and addressing willful negativity.

I'd hardly call it enjoying myself, responding to some who respond here, full of negativity and bias, and who even lack respect at times. And I have certainly been ganged up on a few times. Once I have had my say, and feel like there is nothing much more to add, and especially if I am not being read properly and so find myself repeating things, I leave the conversation. Lack of respect is often the catalyst of that too. Lack of respect can be as simple as not diligently reading what I have already said, avoiding issues I have raised, etc ... all quite apparent by the nature of the replies.

I would call you more accepting, than pragmatical.

Logic and Reason are my favorite bedfellows.

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by MGlitch

Regardless if you don’t communicate your reasons to them they aren’t going to change. Especially if it’s select cases with specific authors.

Do you honestly think they have no understanding of what they are doing, or that many customers would be none too happy? How could they not know?

You’re clearly passionate about the issue. But posting here is essentially shouting into the wind for all the change it’s going to affect. It’s doubtful you’ll get anyone not affected by this to care enough to change their buying habits when you refuse to tell the publishers your reasons. Even then it’s rather unlikely for a variety of reasons.

Gawd, it is not about getting anyone to change their buying habits. It is about initiating a discussion, making people aware and getting them thinking, and it goes well beyond just the few who bother to reply here. Some might call it sowing seeds for the future.

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Personally, I see no difference between this and buying a book then shipping it to you.

Indeed, and something I used to do a lot, but which the digital age, due to zones etc has ruined ... at least for ebooks.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by Timboli

I would call you more accepting, than pragmatical.

Why? Because I have no bone to pick with publishers on the other side of the globe, with whom I've never done business and likely will never do?

If I had problems with ebook prices in my country, I would not bore people in other countries with endless posts on the subject. They won't change local laws and rules for me. I'd use the methods previously described to buy my books cheaper. And I would write about the issue in local forums, and directly to the publishers.