Will Paper books fade away?

[Liviu_5]

Originally Posted by iterati

Finally, I hope that we’ll replace paper altogether in the next 20 years say and probably it will be

This thread is interesting for many reasons, and the only negative about speculating about e-books replacing print books in the foreseeable future is the fact that such was used as justification for drm and high ebook prices.

If you think of how you use paper (from scribbling, to flipping, to casually throwing it around and in the trash), you will realize quickly that replacing paper is very, very unlikely unless e becomes an extension of our bodies, so we connect directly through our minds to an e-cloud. SF maybe, but more likely than devices replacing paper.

However this argument that ebooks will replace print books is used for nefarious purposes by publishers and this is why it should be debunked; accepting sacrifices now (drm, high ebook prices) for the glorious future, well I lived through that once (communist paradise was always round the corner, maybe not next year, but in the next five years for sure), so I am always skeptical of arguments inviting people to shared sacrifices; usually the one who invites and his peers do the sharing (of others stuff of course), the rest of the people do the sacrifices...

[thibaulthalpern]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

So many comments... I could've sworn I was just here! Anyway, just this one point:



Don't forget, some of the reasons for replacing paper with e-books concern the incredible environmental damage and pollution caused by producing, shipping and storing all that paper, damage that can now be significantly mitigated by switching to electronic readers. It's not only an aesthetic discussion.

I don't really buy that argument because electronics produce a lot of waste from the mining in the Democratic Republic of Congo for that mineral resource that it and only a few places have (I've forgotten the name of the mineral ) to
electronic product waste generated by First World countries shipped to Third World countries.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Liviu_5

This thread is interesting for many reasons, and the only negative about speculating about e-books replacing print books in the foreseeable future is the fact that such was used as justification for drm and high ebook prices.

That was pretty obviously a spurious justification, though. Publishers used the argument to scare people... but in fact, it was only a smokescreen, and the pubs themselves were the only ones caught in it. The smoke has pretty much been blown away now, and the publishers have a lot less cover to hide behind, which is why they are finally making the "me too" noises and trying to catch up to the bandwagon.

Originally Posted by Liviu_5

If you think of how you use paper (from scribbling, to flipping, to casually throwing it around and in the trash), you will realize quickly that replacing paper is very, very unlikely unless e becomes an extension of our bodies, so we connect directly through our minds to an e-cloud.

You're referring to habits that can be un-learned. As an example, I "scribble" on paper so seldom that a 1x1.5" post-it pad will satisfy my writing needs for most of a year... everything else is electronic, including most of the notes that go temporarily onto the post-its. A pencil and eraser gets them to last even longer. I throw away very little paper, because I use very little paper in the first place. I even decline paper receipts when given the option. (I'm not sure what you meant by "flipping"...)

Many of us are used to using paper for various tasks... but those tasks can be performed by other media as easily. It just takes making the effort to try new ways of doing the same thing.

If anything I ever say becomes summarily known as "Jordan's Theorem," it will probably be this: "You get used to what you want to get used to."

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by thibaulthalpern

I don't really buy that argument because electronics produce a lot of waste from the mining in the Democratic Republic of Congo for that mineral resource that it and only a few places have (I've forgotten the name of the mineral ) to electronic product waste generated by First World countries shipped to Third World countries.

As I said, it's not the electronics themselves, but the amount of them treated as disposable and thrown away fully functioning, that is the problem. This problem is also solved by multi-use devices, so consumers don't need a device for every single task. Efficient methods of production, use, recycling and proper disposal make a huge difference, and need to be applied to the electronics industry badly. When they are, there will be no doubt about the economic and environmental superiority of electronic devices.

[primbs]

A review of Orwell's book 1984.

"The largest section of the RECORDS DEPARTMENT, far larger than the one on which Winston worked, consisted simply of persons whose duty it was to track down and collect all copies of books, newspapers, and other documents which had been superseded and were due for destruction."

"The hunting-down and destruction of books had been done with thoroughness and it was very unlikely that there existed anywhere in Oceania a copy of a book printed earlier than 1960. Books were recalled and rewritten again and again, and were invariably re issued without any admission that any alteration had been made. Even the written instructions never stated or implied that an act of forgery was to be committed: always reference was to slips, errors, misprints, or misquotations which it was necessary to put right in the interests of accuracy. But actually it was not even forgery. It was merely the substitution of one piece of nonsense for another. Statistics were just as much a fantasy in their original version as in their rectified version. A great deal of the time you were expected to make them up out of your head."

[Stringer]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

You're referring to habits that can be un-learned. As an example, I "scribble" on paper so seldom that a 1x1.5" post-it pad will satisfy my writing needs for most of a year... everything else is electronic, including most of the notes that go temporarily onto the post-its. A pencil and eraser gets them to last even longer. I throw away very little paper, because I use very little paper in the first place. I even decline paper receipts when given the option. (I'm not sure what you meant by "flipping"...)

How do you know the people you give those post-its don't throw them away? Or is it for home use only. I wonder why you don't go get trashed papers from others to replace the post-its. I mean isn't it little bit waste to use BRAND NEW post-its, even if not so often, when you could just as well go to the nearest waste-basket and get some little used paper there?

[dmaul1114]

Yeah, that's just a matter of habit I guess.

I always have legal pads I use to scribble notes on stuff, work through equations etc. And I prefer printing out some articles so I can highlight and write in the margins easily. Harder to do on tablet PCs etc--with my terrible handwriting it's hard to write small and neat enough on those things.

So I'm a person that's always likely going to have a use for paper in some of my work uses, as I'm not going to sacrifice habit or convenience to save some trees. I do recycle every single piece of paper I know longer need though.

[Stringer]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

Harder to do on tablet PCs etc--with my terrible handwriting it's hard to write small and neat enough on those things.

When I was still at school, I used a scientific calculator for my notes at the later years. Even while it did had graphical capability, you can imagine there wasn't much pictures. Also, writing was everything but easy with the small buttons and odd layout (compared to qwerty). Today I have been using my phone with built-in qwerty to do same thing. It has camera so I could take pictures too, but my studies now are just some day or two work-based random courses so I don't make exactly notes about what somebody talks. I do make notes about development ideas I get from those courses, and such ideas rarely need any pictures. But if I were back to school and need to make lots of notes, I would probably use one of those mini-laptops, built-in keyboard for writing and a mini-mouse for drawing figures. Maybe use the phone to take pictures and record (audio) everything just in case I don't quite follow my notes later.

Or, maybe I would just forget making notes and try to listen and learn. What ever I use, I still cannot remember those details after a while so all lecture type teaching for me falls eventually to category "attitude" learning.

[dmaul1114]

Yeah, there are viable options.

For notes I mean more from conference calls (can't type with one hand) or just writing down thoughts when working on stuff, or scratch paper etc. etc. I'm a professor so I've always got several studies going on etc. and just need to be able to do things as quickly as possible. So for some note I just need on my desk for a day or whatever I'd rather just scribble something down quickly on a sheet of paper. Time is always of the essence.

And I just find it much easier and more natural to me to use paper. But to each their own, if people can type, or use phones or tablet PCs just as comfortably and quickly etc. then good for them.

[Stringer]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

Just much easier and more natural to me to use paper. But to each their own, if people can type, or use phones or tablet PCs just as comfortably then good for them.

Yeah, sounds like I'm exactly your opposite. I hate paper and especially lead pencils. The latter gives me creeps. My hand-writing is poor at the best and sometimes I cannot follow it even myself. Also, all my time goes to the writing when I use pencils, because I'm slow writer. Not to mention all the typos and attempts to correct them.

[dmaul1114]

Yeah, my handwriting is terrible, but I can read it and I do write quickly. I don't worry about typos etc. since my handwriting is just notes just for myself.

[Stringer]

I just have to propose solutions for these too.

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

For notes I mean more from conference calls (can't type with one hand)

Hands-free ear-phones?

or just writing down thoughts when working on stuff,

I use a audio recorder which I keep on my pocket all the times. Although I activate it only when needed. This is how I capture spoken feedback from our factory. Other ToDo-things I put directly to Outlook.

or scratch paper

I'm sorry for lack of my English understanding, but does that really have to do something with notes? I mean can't you just press delete on computer?

So for some note I just need on my desk for a day or whatever I'd rather just scribble something down quickly on a sheet of paper.

I write such quick notes to UltraEditor and then save the file to desktop. Sometimes I might even leave the editor open (without saving) until I don't need such notes anymore. Often I combine many notes to the same file.

However, I try to remember to put those things that have to be done at the Outlook with reminders.

Time is always of the essence.

Well I guess one could use few seconds more searching the pre-opened program windows to do notes, but for me it is worth. However, the audio recorder can be very handy with remote control attached to tie or something.

[dmaul1114]

Hey, like I said it's just personal preference as there are viable options out there.

I just love scribbling on paper, marking up print outs of articles vs. the viable electronic options and probably always will.

But there are definitely substitutes out there and I see why many like them. I'm just not a huge tech guy with this type of stuff despite being young (30). No desire for a smart phone etc. I use a PC all the time for writing papers, running analyses, surfing the web, searching for articles (to print out and read and mark up!) and so on.

Hell I've had a PDA for years and have barely used it. Just prefer to wirte on the big wall calender my office gives us all every year.

Just a case of to each their own in doing what they feel works best for them to get their work done efficiently and comfortably.

But I love my kindle for leisure reading!

But honestly, I think I'd been happier to have lived in an era where we weren't tied to electronic gadgets 24/7!

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Stringer

How do you know the people you give those post-its don't throw them away? Or is it for home use only. I wonder why you don't go get trashed papers from others to replace the post-its. I mean isn't it little bit waste to use BRAND NEW post-its, even if not so often, when you could just as well go to the nearest waste-basket and get some little used paper there?

I never give people notes on post-its. If I don't tell them directly, I e-mail them. They are exclusively for my use, and only use when I cannot jot something into my PDA (which is usually right there with me) or my PC. That's why a single pad lasts so long.

No, I don't usually rummage through the trash to find other peoples' thrown-away notes... but digging through trashcans looking for note-paper would take longer than getting my PDA, so what's the point in that?

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

So I'm a person that's always likely going to have a use for paper in some of my work uses, as I'm not going to sacrifice habit or convenience to save some trees. I do recycle every single piece of paper I know longer need though.

This is why we are all doomed...