Page Numbers, Percentage, or nothing at all

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I know Calibre can generate a page number file for a Kindle eBook using a fixed end page number. How does that compare to ADE page numbers when both have the same end page number?

I don't know; I also don't really care. I just want to know how far I am in a book. The Page Count plugin counts every book the same way (with 2100 characters per page, or about 350 words), so one book that is counted to be 300 pages is about as long as any other book also counted to be 300 pages.

I have Calibre put that number in the book's title when uploading to the reader, like so: The Fellowship of the Ring (529).

After that, I don't really care if the reader counts in percentages. 10% of this book would put me at page 52 (in my counting). If the reader goes to screen / total and says 73 / 730, that's also fine with me.

I always want to know how long a chapter is, or better yet, the estimated time to reading it. With the current firmware, I literally have everything:

- Chapter time to read in the header.
- Screen / Total Screen in the footer
- A progress bar in the footer
- Percentage on the home screen
- My own counting in the title.

I can basically work with anything (x of y, percentage, etc), as long as I have "y", where "y" is the number of pages/screens; and I don't really care how "y" is determined or if it is accurate as compared to a physical book.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by ratinox

I don't know what the best solution is. I do know that anything based on the concept of a page isn't it. Maybe counting words really is that solution.

I don't either. The faux page number scheme works well for me, since I like to experiment with different readers. (For most sensible people, who stick with one reader, this would probably never come up.)

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Last night I picked up a book I'd started on my Kobo (kepub) and read for a bit on my Nook (ePub). I did the same as you and was reading within about fifteen seconds.

After seeing others complain about the difficulty of this due to lack of consistent page numbers, I assumed I had wizard powers.

15 SECONDS! That's about 10 seconds longer than it should take!

But seriously, for me, being able to jump to a specific page feels "right." I've mentioned Kobo's inability to do that in the past. My Sonys, Tolinos and Nooks can do it. Only the Kobo can't (you have to use the slider).

Yeah, I know, first world problems.

[Solitaire1]

For non-hard-page formats like ePub, I think that a progress bar that can be brought up with a touch, and a percentage with adjustable precision (full percentage [5%], or to a decimal place [5.2% or 5.25%]) based on the total number of characters in the book would be the best option since it should be roughly the same across platforms.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by ratinox

I think it is realistic, and it has everything to do with the user interface...

It is possible. I don't know if word counts is good, though. Consistency is only one factor of good systems and good UIs.

Just use ePub on all devices.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by ratinox

I think it is realistic, and it has everything to do with the user interface. For example, using word counts to mark and find reading positions is independent of devices. It would work the same on Kobo, Kindle, Nook, whatever. The presentation of these marks is part of the UI.

It is possible. I don't know if word counts is good, though. Consistency is only one factor of good systems and good UIs.

You are talking about consistency between different applications and devices? I assumed all this was about consistency on the Kobo ereader devices only. But, as you aren't then...

No I don't expect consistency. One of the points of having different apps and devices is so that people can get different experiences. And hopefully find one that fits them perfectly.

Within a platform, I do expect consistency. But, I also expect that different types of things are likely to be treated differently. Exactly how an epub, a PDF, a CBR or CBZ, a PNG, a JPG or a Kobo ePub (to use the name Kobo display) are treated can be different because they are different.

[ratinox]

Originally Posted by davidfor

You are talking about consistency between different applications and devices? I assumed all this was about consistency on the Kobo ereader devices only. But, as you aren't then...

Not specifically. Cross-platform consistency is a side effect of decoupling position representation from hardware or medium. A word is a word regardless of the medium used to present it.

No I don't expect consistency. One of the points of having different apps and devices is so that people can get different experiences. And hopefully find one that fits them perfectly.

Consistency does not mean uniform interface or experience. Consistency means every time you do X then Y happens. Consistency means that when you tell your applications "go to position Z" you get the same position. User interface is how you issue this instruction. It might be typing a number or sliding a bead on a bar or saying "Hey, Siri. Go to position Z". User experience is how well or poorly this interaction works.

[lkmiller]

Originally Posted by ratinox

For example, using word counts to mark and find reading positions is independent of devices. It would work the same on Kobo, Kindle, Nook, whatever. The presentation of these marks is part of the UI.

It is possible. I don't know if word counts is good, though. Consistency is only one factor of good systems and good UIs.

Kobo's former page algorithm used word count. ADE uses a different method, but essentially gives you a similar size block of words as a "page."

I don't usually switch devices in the middle of a book. But I like to keep track of my daily reading with page counts. Previously 1 page = about 330 words with kepub, epub, and Pocket articles on my Kobo. And, of course, it's the same for epubs on my Nook. Now that kepubs and Pocket articles use screen numbers (which even on my 8-inch Forma have maybe 200 words depending on settings), that's all thrown off.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by ratinox

I think it is realistic, and it has everything to do with the user interface. For example, using word counts to mark and find reading positions is independent of devices. It would work the same on Kobo, Kindle, Nook, whatever. The presentation of these marks is part of the UI.

It is possible. I don't know if word counts is good, though. Consistency is only one factor of good systems and good UIs.

Word count is not as convenient as ADE page numbers. Plus, it takes longer to count words. ePub on both Kobo and nook use ADE page numbers and because ADE page numbers are the same on both devices, you just go to the same page number on either device and you are back reading where you left off.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by rcentros

I don't either. The faux page number scheme works well for me, since I like to experiment with different readers. (For most sensible people, who stick with one reader, this would probably never come up.)

It's no more a faux page number then then page number in a pBook. The pBook's page number is calculated by the number of pages. The ADE page number is calculated based 1024 compressed bytes - 1 page. So really, both are just as faux as the other. And in some pBooks, page 1 is not until some pages in.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Just use ePub on all devices.

with RMSDK (ADE).

[ppowell002]

I'm pissed at what the new update has done to page numbers. I happen to like seeing how many pages are in a book and how many I have read an having that information at the bottom of the page. The new system is useless. Increasing the number of pages when font size is adjusted is not helpful. My current book in hardcover is 461 pages, in my ebook it's 2578 pages. It's all nonsense.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by ppowell002

I'm pissed at what the new update has done to page numbers. I happen to like seeing how many pages are in a book and how many I have read an having that information at the bottom of the page. The new system is useless. Increasing the number of pages when font size is adjusted is not helpful. My current book in hardcover is 461 pages, in my ebook it's 2578 pages. It's all nonsense.

There is a very simple solution. Read ePub instead of KePub.

[MGlitch]

Originally Posted by ppowell002

I'm pissed at what the new update has done to page numbers. I happen to like seeing how many pages are in a book and how many I have read an having that information at the bottom of the page. The new system is useless. Increasing the number of pages when font size is adjusted is not helpful. My current book in hardcover is 461 pages, in my ebook it's 2578 pages. It's all nonsense.

ebooks seldom if ever aligned with their physical counterparts especially by the time various physical editions were released.

[MGlitch]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Word count is not as convenient as ADE page numbers. Plus, it takes longer to count words. ePub on both Kobo and nook use ADE page numbers and because ADE page numbers are the same on both devices, you just go to the same page number on either device and you are back reading where you left off.

This is a poor argument. If you’re going to argue words take longer to count I’m going to ask you to please count the bytes yourself. The ereader is more than capable of calculating words in an ebook upon import and then presenting that as a measurement. We can even abbreviate the numbers over 1,000 to make them easier to deal with for humans.