Will Paper books fade away? - Page 8

dmaul1114 · 03-11-2009, 05:32 PM

I do criminology, so most all of my research is gathering scholarly articles of past studies for lit reviews and the rest is collecting my own data. Of course I do online searches to find articles. I then print them out and read them and mark them up and keep them around for easy flipping through.

And I'm younger that you it seems, as I'm 30, so it's not an age thing. I just like doing work that way. Computers for searching, analyzing data and writing. But I like printouts of past studies to read and mark up. It's quicker and easier and more natural to me.

As for cost, if my university bought me a reader like that great. They won't and they pay for all my paper and printing needs. And I'm sorry I'm just not a tree hugger to the extent that I'm going to worry about paper printouts that I generally keep around permanently and recycle when I don't.

You can fellate your iRex all you want, I'll stick with my print outs. To each their own. Quit being so pushy and defensive of the tech things you love. They're not for everyone or for every purpose for everyone.

Geez. You can't discuss any kind of gadget on the net as they all have their fanboys that jump all over people who don't think they're the best thing since sliced bread.

Oh well, I decided on my reader, and learned how to get free books so I have little further use for this site. So peace.

Sonist · 03-11-2009, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

... You can fellate your iRex all you want, I'll stick with my print outs. ... Quit being so pushy and defensive of the tech things you love. They're not for everyone.

Funny, you and the 'hood guy, keep telling me I am pushy, when I (more politely than either of you) maintain a perfectly sensible position, that e-information should, and will, largely displace p-information.

Yet you two go to a forum for people, who generally use, or are interested in using, an e-reader, and tell them what YOU do, and why they are obviously wrong.

Nobody is pushing you to do anything. It's an idle debate. People make points with which some may disagree sometimes. You are not in class, nor are you an authority here. If you feel pushed, move on.

I do not particularly care what YOU do, I am here because I like, and I am interested in, e-ink and e-books. Phew!

dmaul1114 · 03-11-2009, 06:02 PM

I'm not being pushy at all. I just say why I don't like ereaders for certain types of things. I never said anything was wrong. People just say how great they are for research etc., and I say why I don't like using ereaders for work, but love them for leisure reading.

I don't care if you like them better, that's great. I never will. But in every thread you're attacking my posts.

I'm not saying people shouldn't use ereaders for academic research--if they like it that's great. No need to jump all over people who prefer print outs. For someone who doesn't care what I do, you sure try to point out how I should be using ereaders instead of print outs at every chance you get.

You think ereaders SHOULD replace paper and thus you're pushy toward people who are resistant. Maybe you just love the tech that much, or maybe you're a tree hugger, or maybe it's both.

But no reason to even argue with someone like me just posting a personal opinion on how we do or don't like to use ereaders. It's different if I was being an ass and trying to tell people why they shouldn't use ereaders for this or that purpose. But unlike you I truly don't care what people do or don't use them for. I only care about what usefulness they have to me.

Moejoe · 03-11-2009, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonist

Funny, you and the 'hood guy, keep telling me I am pushy, when I (more politely than either of you) maintain a perfectly sensible position, that e-information should, and will, largely displace p-information.

Yet you two go to a forum for people, who generally use, or are interested in using, an e-reader, and tell them what YOU do, and why they are obviously wrong.

Nobody is pushing you to do anything. It's an idle debate. People make points with which some may disagree sometimes. You are not in class, nor are you an authority here. If you feel pushed, move on.

I do not particularly care what YOU do, I am here because I like, and I am interested in, e-ink and e-books. Phew!

I'm not a 'hood' guy. I live in a Northern English Working-Class Neighborhood. Hood guy? Are you frakkin serious? You're the one being a pompous ass all the time. I'm an avid reader, I'm very much interested in e-reading and do it all the time. Reading is my passion, my love, I spent a great deal of time, effort and money to gain both my Bachelor of Arts and Masters Degrees in Literature. I actively encourage reading in all its forms. I don't tell people what to DO, I actively respond though when some pompous ass comes around trolling.

If you'd even bothered to read this thread, you would have seen that I agree that paper will dissapear eventually, I have said nothing counter to your own opinion on the matter. But no, you had to stir the pot, you had to go and throw insults. You know what, the next time you want to brand someone as a 'hood' guy or whatever pejorative phrase your tiny brain can come up with, you might want to turn around and look at yourself.

Sonist · 03-11-2009, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moejoe

I... Hood guy? Are you frakkin serious?....

Sorry, didn't realize you're so sensitive.

It's just, that you keep bringing up your neighborhood, where "70% are unemployed" and where they break your nose for a packet of cigarettes, and it stuck in my mind. It was just shorthand, as I forgot your moniker.

On the other hand, would you have preferred, that I called you something like "ignorant idiot," or "pompous ass?"

Anyway, I am glad we agree "that paper will dissapear eventually." This was the whole point of the discussion.

desertgrandma · 03-11-2009, 06:37 PM

Just a question.

why do ANY names need to be called?

We love our discussions here on MR, but please try to stay away from such flame starters as "pompous ass", "hood guy" "ignorant idiot".

Surely, with all the words availabe in the English language, you can do better than that.

dmaul1114 · 03-11-2009, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonist

Anyway, I am glad we agree "that paper will dissapear eventually." This was the whole point of the discussion.

Even I agree it will eventually. But I think it's a very long ways off.

Like not in our lifetimes. I think paper use will be greatly reduced in our lifetimes though. Even the internet has helped with that with people reading newspapers and magazines online vs. subscribing. Of course that was helped along by the sites being free.

And ereaders will help it along, especially as time goes on and there are multifunction devices that are better ereaders than laptops or iphones or PDAs.

But I'll print my scholarly articles and mark them up as long as I have a printer and paper!

Moejoe · 03-11-2009, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

Just a question.

why do ANY names need to be called?

We love our discussions here on MR, but please try to stay away from such flame starters as "pompous ass", "hood guy" "ignorant idiot".

Surely, with all the words availabe in the English language, you can do better than that.

Yes, totally agree. Let's bury this now and have no more said about it

Apologies are forethcoming, retractions are made, the air is clean.

Although...if you want to know my 'moniker' when I was growing up and in a gang, they called me 'Gonzo', on account of my nose (since flattened)

desertgrandma · 03-11-2009, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moejoe

Yes, totally agree. Let's bury this now and have no more said about it

Apologies are forethcoming, retractions are made, the air is clean.

Although...if you want to know my 'moniker' when I was growing up and in a gang, they called me 'Gonzo', on account of my nose (since flattened)

"Gonzo" Whenever I hear that, I think of "Gonzo" on Sesame Street........

Moejoe · 03-11-2009, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

"Gonzo" Whenever I hear that, I think of "Gonzo" on Sesame Street........

The very same! The physical resemblance is astounding. Although I swear I never had anything to do with chickens (in a carnal sense)

desertgrandma · 03-11-2009, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moejoe

The very same! The physical resemblance is astounding. Although I swear I never had anything to do with chickens (in a carnal sense)

Define "carnal"

(No, I was just kidding, please don't!

)

primbs · 03-12-2009, 02:24 AM

I wonder about the integrity of ebooks.

"What is really of concern, as those of us who have read our Orwell know, is that without hard copy books can be changed, doctored and manipulated at will to suit any political climate or support any bureaucratic or government agenda. The government is already dismantling and downgrading our libraries."

http://www.wired.com/politics/online...8/wiki_tracker

"George Orwell wrote his legendary novel 1984 just after World War II. It is renowned for its portrayal of government's encroachment on the rights of the individual."

"Pervasive thought control and surveillance of citizens is prominent throughout the novel."

"The Party maintained control of Oceania by manipulating facts, history, and citizens to retain power and dominate the masses."

Control of Information and History

"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past. Party slogan 1984"

"The complete lack of interest or care about American history by the vast majority of citizens, allows them to be misled by the State."

How will ebooks be protected from manipulation?

"The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became truth."

"Language as Thought Control"

"The very concept of objective truth is fading out of the world. Lies will pass into history. During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

That was a central point of the book.

Will we want to keep a few copies of paper books around?

Moejoe · 03-12-2009, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by primbs

I wonder about the integrity of ebooks.

"What is really of concern, as those of us who have read our Orwell know, is that without hard copy books can be changed, doctored and manipulated at will to suit any political climate or support any bureaucratic or government agenda. The government is already dismantling and downgrading our libraries."

http://www.wired.com/politics/online...8/wiki_tracker

"George Orwell wrote his legendary novel 1984 just after World War II. It is renowned for its portrayal of government's encroachment on the rights of the individual."

"Pervasive thought control and surveillance of citizens is prominent throughout the novel."

"The Party maintained control of Oceania by manipulating facts, history, and citizens to retain power and dominate the masses."

Control of Information and History

"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past. Party slogan 1984"

"The complete lack of interest or care about American history by the vast majority of citizens, allows them to be misled by the State."

How will ebooks be protected from manipulation?

"The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became truth."

"Language as Thought Control"

"The very concept of objective truth is fading out of the world. Lies will pass into history. During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

That was a central point of the book.

Will we want to keep a few copies of paper books around?

As long as there are those outside of Corporate or Government (one and the same to me) control who keep copies of the books in a digital format, I'm glad to say that the Orwell nightmare doesn't stand a chance. With these digital copies archived by individuals, any flaw or 'correction' after the fact, will be revealed. In a way the digital affords a greater ease of dissemination, something a physical book can never match. A digital file can cross continents in the blink of an eye, be shared instantaneously, and has none of the phsyical requirements of a paper book.

On the other hand I don't doubt that soon enough we're going to start seeing 'unofficial' edits of works, like the fan-edits of popular films. These will transform the original intention into something quite different. Imagine, if you will, a fan edit of the The Stand or War and Peace or any other long novel, according to the whims of the individuals who edit them. Who knows we might end up with a culture of edits that are better than the originals (in the case of Star Wars this has already been proven to be true).

cerement · 03-12-2009, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by primbs

How will ebooks be protected from manipulation?

This is advantage of digital signing (at least when done by the author). A digital signature (at least when done with a public key system) can be used to authenticate who wrote the text and that the text is unchanged.

iterati · 03-12-2009, 05:45 AM

If nothing else, the arguments are interesting. The most ridiculous is that about the smell of books, sense and such warm feelings. Then again, maybe it’s me, I don’t feel any form of attachment to objects and I am willing to change everything, no trouble there, but I understand that many feel sentimental about objects. Anyhow, the real value of a book is in its ideas and not the medium we use to distribute these.

About books and kids, it’s the responsibility of the parents to guide and inspire their children that destruction of everything isn’t the solution. There are many kids that die because they have nothing to eat, can’t have other one destroying goods. Eventually, either paper or electronic doesn’t matter; destroying it it’s just wrong.

As for the manipulation of eboooks to propagate political views, it’s invalid. The same very well applies today with paper. Read the history schoolbooks of neighbour countries, for instance. What makes you believe that what is written in paper is the absolute truth, anyway? And exactly here comes the internet, so far largely free that anyone can express their thoughts. Digital signing or DRM or something related is a weapon of the few against the majority. What it is with the people, learned the way of slavery and can’t be free?

Finally, I hope that we’ll replace paper altogether in the next 20 years say and probably it will be.

03-11-2009, 05:32 PM	#106
dmaul1114 Wizard Posts: 2,300 Karma: 1121709 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: Amazon Kindle 1	I do criminology, so most all of my research is gathering scholarly articles of past studies for lit reviews and the rest is collecting my own data. Of course I do online searches to find articles. I then print them out and read them and mark them up and keep them around for easy flipping through. And I'm younger that you it seems, as I'm 30, so it's not an age thing. I just like doing work that way. Computers for searching, analyzing data and writing. But I like printouts of past studies to read and mark up. It's quicker and easier and more natural to me. As for cost, if my university bought me a reader like that great. They won't and they pay for all my paper and printing needs. And I'm sorry I'm just not a tree hugger to the extent that I'm going to worry about paper printouts that I generally keep around permanently and recycle when I don't. You can fellate your iRex all you want, I'll stick with my print outs. To each their own. Quit being so pushy and defensive of the tech things you love. They're not for everyone or for every purpose for everyone. Geez. You can't discuss any kind of gadget on the net as they all have their fanboys that jump all over people who don't think they're the best thing since sliced bread. Oh well, I decided on my reader, and learned how to get free books so I have little further use for this site. So peace. Last edited by dmaul1114; 03-11-2009 at 05:48 PM.

03-12-2009, 02:24 AM	#117
primbs Member Posts: 21 Karma: 10 Join Date: Feb 2007	The danger of manipulation of e-books to suit political/ government agenda I wonder about the integrity of ebooks. "What is really of concern, as those of us who have read our Orwell know, is that without hard copy books can be changed, doctored and manipulated at will to suit any political climate or support any bureaucratic or government agenda. The government is already dismantling and downgrading our libraries." http://www.wired.com/politics/online...8/wiki_tracker "George Orwell wrote his legendary novel 1984 just after World War II. It is renowned for its portrayal of government's encroachment on the rights of the individual." "Pervasive thought control and surveillance of citizens is prominent throughout the novel." "The Party maintained control of Oceania by manipulating facts, history, and citizens to retain power and dominate the masses." Control of Information and History "Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past. Party slogan 1984" "The complete lack of interest or care about American history by the vast majority of citizens, allows them to be misled by the State." How will ebooks be protected from manipulation? "The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became truth." "Language as Thought Control" "The very concept of objective truth is fading out of the world. Lies will pass into history. During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." That was a central point of the book. Will we want to keep a few copies of paper books around?

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03-11-2009, 06:02 PM	#108
dmaul1114 Wizard Posts: 2,300 Karma: 1121709 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: Amazon Kindle 1	I'm not being pushy at all. I just say why I don't like ereaders for certain types of things. I never said anything was wrong. People just say how great they are for research etc., and I say why I don't like using ereaders for work, but love them for leisure reading. I don't care if you like them better, that's great. I never will. But in every thread you're attacking my posts. I'm not saying people shouldn't use ereaders for academic research--if they like it that's great. No need to jump all over people who prefer print outs. For someone who doesn't care what I do, you sure try to point out how I should be using ereaders instead of print outs at every chance you get. You think ereaders SHOULD replace paper and thus you're pushy toward people who are resistant. Maybe you just love the tech that much, or maybe you're a tree hugger, or maybe it's both. But no reason to even argue with someone like me just posting a personal opinion on how we do or don't like to use ereaders. It's different if I was being an ass and trying to tell people why they shouldn't use ereaders for this or that purpose. But unlike you I truly don't care what people do or don't use them for. I only care about what usefulness they have to me.

03-11-2009, 06:37 PM	#111
desertgrandma Enjoying the show.... Posts: 14,270 Karma: 10462843 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Arizona Device: A K1, Kindle Paperwhite, an Ipod, IPad2, Iphone, an Ipad Mini & macAir	Just a question. why do ANY names need to be called? We love our discussions here on MR, but please try to stay away from such flame starters as "pompous ass", "hood guy" "ignorant idiot". Surely, with all the words availabe in the English language, you can do better than that.

03-12-2009, 05:45 AM	#120
iterati Zealot Posts: 100 Karma: 170 Join Date: May 2008 Location: Greece Device: Hanlin V3, RCA REB1100, iPaq 214	If nothing else, the arguments are interesting. The most ridiculous is that about the smell of books, sense and such warm feelings. Then again, maybe it’s me, I don’t feel any form of attachment to objects and I am willing to change everything, no trouble there, but I understand that many feel sentimental about objects. Anyhow, the real value of a book is in its ideas and not the medium we use to distribute these. About books and kids, it’s the responsibility of the parents to guide and inspire their children that destruction of everything isn’t the solution. There are many kids that die because they have nothing to eat, can’t have other one destroying goods. Eventually, either paper or electronic doesn’t matter; destroying it it’s just wrong. As for the manipulation of eboooks to propagate political views, it’s invalid. The same very well applies today with paper. Read the history schoolbooks of neighbour countries, for instance. What makes you believe that what is written in paper is the absolute truth, anyway? And exactly here comes the internet, so far largely free that anyone can express their thoughts. Digital signing or DRM or something related is a weapon of the few against the majority. What it is with the people, learned the way of slavery and can’t be free? Finally, I hope that we’ll replace paper altogether in the next 20 years say and probably it will be.