Content WHat Kindle Does Behind the Scenes

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by FrustratedReader

KFX is nothing to do with presentation despite what Amazon say. Nor have publishers/uploaders any control over the conversion process other than choosing epub, mobi, docx etc as the upload format.

Enjoy your delusion. It's quite clear you have zero objectivity where Amazon is concerned.

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by FrustratedReader

KFX is nothing to do with presentation despite what Amazon say.

Not true. Whether or not a book is in KFX format definitely impacts its presentation to the user.

Kindle reading apps and devices have multiple renderers for books in reflowable formats. The renderer used depends on the particular format in which the book is delivered to the device. The original MOBI renderer is based on a subset of HTML 3 and is the least capable. KF8 uses an outdated version of webkit and supports much richer formatting. KFX is totally proprietary to Amazon and adds things not available with the older renderers, like automatic hyphenation and ligature substitution.

Now, as JSWolf points out, Amazon could have improved e-book presentation using a more standard approach. But as things stand now KFX is required to enable some presentation features.

Originally Posted by FrustratedReader

Nor have publishers/uploaders any control over the conversion process other than choosing epub, mobi, docx etc as the upload format.

This is also untrue. The publisher has the ability to control this by using only supported features in the books they send to Amazon. Some features of the various source formats cannot currently be converted to KFX format. These are (somewhat) documented in the Amazon Kindle Publishing Guidelines. And Amazon provides a tool, Kindle Previewer 3, that will indicate in advance whether or not a book can be converted to KFX.

Originally Posted by FrustratedReader

Certain kinds of Amazon electronic books are not traditional ebooks (such as some textbooks) and don't work on eink based readers at all. They are converted differently and are more like PDFs.

There is a difference between reflowable and fixed layouts and the formats that support them. There are also new KFX variants of the original formats used for textbooks, magazines and comics with capabilities beyond those provided by the original renderers for those formats.

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by Barty

It'd probably break too many things and it's not worth the headache. They'll simply continue to phase out the old formats and lock kfx down.

I think that is the most likely plan.

If Amazon gradually makes more new books only available in KFX format it will force users of older devices to upgrade if they want to purchase those books. And because KFX-only books cannot be downloaded for USB transfer it will also block that work-around.

[DiapDealer]

To be fair: people thought much the same thing when KF8 was rolled out. Yet here we are, still able to buy most of the ebooks available on Amazon in a format that will work on the very first incarnation of the Kindle device.

I'm not saying they won't eventually phase out support for older devices and formats. I'm just saying they've been very reluctant to do so up until now. Had they wanted to, they could have just as easily, and aggressively, and continually, altered the DRM on KF8, and closed all the Download via USB loopholes to force K1 and K2 users to upgrade and effectively eliminate the older mobi format.

But they didn't--and they haven't. So I'm not quite ready to drink the lock-everyone-into-the-kfx-format-and-obsolete-all-older-devices/formats kool-ade just yet. Not when they've had ample opportunity (not to mention motive) to do so multiple times in the past.

There's still tons of those older devices out there, but they're being used less and less. Because they've already proven they can get enough costumers to voluntarily update to newer devices and newer formats without using the draconian methods they've always had at their disposal in order to do so.

They don't need to close the loopholes, because more than enough people voluntarily use the formats/devices they want them to use. Which means they can easily afford to ignore the ones who don't; without needing to waste the time and effort of pissing them off by abandoning them (or cutting them off).

[JSWolf]

What might get people to upgrade old devices is if Amazon would allow separate uploads. One for Mobi and one for KF8. This way, more advanced formatting could be used with KF8 without worry of breaking the Mobi. Then to get the better formatted eBook, you upgrade your Kindle.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

What might get people to upgrade old devices is if Amazon would allow separate uploads. One for Mobi and one for KF8. This way, more advanced formatting could be used with KF8 without worry of breaking the Mobi. Then to get the better formatted eBook, you upgrade your Kindle

You DO realize this is precisely why the KindlePreview dual-format output exists, right?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

You DO realize this is precisely why the KindlePreview dual-format output exists, right?

Yes, I know why it exists. But it makes some eBooks harder to make as you have to cater for Mobi at the same time. So in some cases, you have to dumb down your eBook formatting.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

So in some cases, you have to dumb down your eBook formatting.

Only if you're "dumb," and have no business formatting ebooks for sale in the first place. Your "solution" wouldn't change that. In fact, it would probably exacerbate the problem.

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

They don't need to close the loopholes, because more than enough people voluntarily use the formats/devices they want them to use. Which means they can easily afford to ignore the ones who don't; without needing to waste the time and effort of pissing them off by abandoning them (or cutting them off).

That is logical and fits with how Amazon has behaved so far. The older formats are needed to support the older devices still in use by customers.

The main area that still makes no sense to me is that Amazon continues to deliver the older formats through the "Download & transfer via USB" option on their website even for devices that support KFX. I suppose that option may be used infrequently enough that they do not consider it to be worth upgrading. Still, that seems to me to be the most likely thing for them to change.

There are expensive textbooks that Amazon is making available only in KFX format and only on devices and apps with unbroken DRM. I believe that choice may be publisher driven. Perhaps other publishers may opt for that out of piracy paranoia, but I doubt it will be commonplace.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by jhowell

The main area that still makes no sense to me is that Amazon continues to deliver the older formats through the "Download & transfer via USB" option on their website even for devices that support KFX. I suppose that option may be used infrequently enough that they do not consider it to be worth upgrading. Still, that seems to me to be the most likely thing for them to change.

I guess it's for people who don't have wifi. There are some Kindle users even here on MR who only have a wired connection at home. They use the USB transfer method to get their purchased books on their Kindle.

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by TheSmitty

That is most likely my case as well as I get the initial copy to backup from the amazon download which apparently are not KFX.
I guess in looking at stuff on the kindle itself there is no way to determine what format it is in.

I like the way it all works now and happily buy my books on amazon but glad I can backup them up.

Originally Posted by jhowell

That is logical and fits with how Amazon has behaved so far. The older formats are needed to support the older devices still in use by customers.

The main area that still makes no sense to me is that Amazon continues to deliver the older formats through the "Download & transfer via USB" option on their website even for devices that support KFX. I suppose that option may be used infrequently enough that they do not consider it to be worth upgrading. Still, that seems to me to be the most likely thing for them to change.

There are expensive textbooks that Amazon is making available only in KFX format and only on devices and apps with unbroken DRM. I believe that choice may be publisher driven. Perhaps other publishers may opt for that out of piracy paranoia, but I doubt it will be commonplace.

If you download a book listed as enhanced typesetting enabled from amazon, copy it over USB to a KFX capable kindle, then turn on wifi or cellular before opening the book, the kindle will download the KFX version and delete the KF8 version.

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

I guess it's for people who don't have wifi. There are some Kindle users even here on MR who only have a wired connection at home. They use the USB transfer method to get their purchased books on their Kindle.

That is the intended use for that feature. But I suspect that it is used at least as much these day as the first step toward DRM removal.

Switching the download to KFX would prevent that secondary use while actually providing a better experience for the intended users of that feature, since they would have enhanced typesetting in their USB transferred book.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by jhowell

That is the intended use for that feature. But I suspect that it is used at least as much these day as the first step toward DRM removal.

Switching the download to KFX would prevent that secondary use while actually providing a better experience for the intended users of that feature, since they would have enhanced typesetting in their USB transferred book.

Doesn't a book in the KFX format consist of several files? That might confuse non-technical people. (I've never used the format myself, so no idea)

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Doesn't a book in the KFX format consist of several files? That might confuse non-technical people. (I've never used the format myself, so no idea)

Yes it does, however it would be easy for Amazon to provide a single ZIP file containing all of the individual KFX files and have the Kindle unpack it automatically.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

What is it that KFX does that cannot be done with an updated KF8 renderer? RMSDK (ADE) does "enhanced typesetting" without the need for a special format.

Perfect drop caps that don't require jumping through hoops, for example? You select how many lines the drop cap should be, and KFX does the rest. It is even smart enough to reduce the size when the font gets too large. Say, a 3 line drop cap automatically changes to a 2 line drop cap at a certain font size and line spacing. Wider line spacing jumps from 3 to 2 sooner, as expected.

The KF8 version of a book with drop caps does not look quite as nice. Selecting the drop cap still highlights the whole word for lookup in dictionary whether you have the kf8 or kfx version.

Now tell me again which minor changes to the KF8 renderer need to be done to have perfect drop caps?