Defective by Design is targeting the Kindle

[Liviu_5]

Originally Posted by JohnClif

The absolute number of ereaders out there is pretty small. Amazon went with AZW instead of MOBI in order to stop the 'MP3' problem before it got too large to handle.

This way they will ensure the "problem" will stay very, very small for a long while. As long as e-books come crippled they will remain negligible as a slice of the commercial pie. From many comments here and there I doubt most publishers will regret this, so I agree that they have no reason to change (yet).

[rcuadro]

I dont understand this talk about not being able to have the books locally on the computer. I just registered my K2 and added two free books into my library. I can select to send the book to my computer (under the manage your kindle screen) and I have a local copy. I can later on either load it (using USB) back to the Kindle or liberate it and read it elsewhere.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by rcuadro

I dont understand this talk about not being able to have the books locally on the computer.

You can have the "file" on the computer, sure. But, you can't view/read it on the computer.

BOb

[dmaul1114]

I understand the ire people have with DRM. I won't buy DRM mp3s for instance. Though to be fair I don't buy mp3s at all, as I prefer buying the CD and ripping it myself.

But for books I don't care. I seldom ever re-read anything. And if its something I do periodically re-read I'll keep a physical book.

I got an ereader just to be able to get one-time read books, cheaply and easily (no trip to the store or library or online ordering), and not have a physical book cluttering up my condo or having to find time to sell or donate.

[purl4peace]

Originally Posted by rlauzon

If you went to the average person and said:
You have 2 choices.
1) Pay, up front, for $400, an eBook reader, then pay $10 per eBook.
Your eBook reader can fail at any time and may render your purchased eBooks unreadable. You cannot buy used books nor can you borrow books from your friends. Oh, and Amazon is keeping track of what books you read when you use their service.
2) Continue with the current process - where books might cost more, but they might cost less. But you get to buy used books and borrow books from your friends. And no one keeps track of what books you read.

Guess which one they will pick.

The whole "privacy/big brother" argument is a red herring. Whether you are reading a paper book that you checked out from the library, bought from Borders or an eBook downloaded from Sony/Waterstones etc, Big Brother knows EXACTLY what you are reading -- maybe not realtime. If you ordered said book online, the search engine has a record of that. If you got it from a brick and mortar store under your own foot power, they also know that. I suppose the ONLY way you could acquire a book without having some record stored in a data wharehouse somewhere is if you walk in, pay with cash and did not use any reward program AND gave a fake phone number when that comes up. Pure and simple, big brother keeps track of everything you read from a cereal box up through the steamiest bodice ripper.

My second point is unrelated... I frankly am not adverse to going with a DRM book. What I get irritated at is when you look up a title up on the ebookstore of your choice only to find it is not there... But if you go google it, it will actually show up at the publisher's website and says "if you want to buy this ebook, visit ....." Case in point: Chesapeake by James Michener. Several Michener books are available electronically from both Sony and Amazon (as well as other eBookstores). Chesapeake is not -- However, if you go to the random house ebook catalogue -- it appears to be available. Go back to Amazon and go to the Chesapeake webpage and it will say "Want to see this book for the Kindle? Click here to tell the publisher!"

In the meantime, I don't hold my breath -- I found an electronic copy for free and formatted it myself for my Sony.

What is the point of this story? I think the blame for the availability of content isn't just Amazon's fault, or Sony's fault or the publisher's fault... I think they just don't bother working together to make sure that customers have true access to all available content.

Finally, I always find it amusing to check out the back and forth comments on for the Kindle reviews -- it has become a Jihad of sorts. The thing I can't stand is even when there is a constructive negative review, the pro-kindle zealots jump on that review and discredit it faster than Rush Limbaugh taking on Michael Steele. It is as if the fact that someone might not have the same glowing experience is somehow a reflection on their own personal selves. Very strange....

[dmaul1114]

Originally Posted by rlauzon

If you went to the average person and said:
You have 2 choices.
1) Pay, up front, for $400, an eBook reader, then pay $10 per eBook.
Your eBook reader can fail at any time and may render your purchased eBooks unreadable. You cannot buy used books nor can you borrow books from your friends. Oh, and Amazon is keeping track of what books you read when you use their service.
2) Continue with the current process - where books might cost more, but they might cost less. But you get to buy used books and borrow books from your friends. And no one keeps track of what books you read.

Guess which one they will pick.

The problem here is that the average person will probably never buy an ereader. The Average person hardly reads any books, just a handful a year.

Ereaders are for very niche crowd--avid readers who want to stop cluttering up the house with physical books.

I didn't buy one to save money. I bought one to not have books laying around that I'll never read again (or wasting time selling or donating them) and the convenience of being able to get books instantly without having to drive somewhere or wait for an online order to arrive.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

The problem here is that the average person will probably never buy an ereader. The Average person hardly reads any books, just a handful a year.

Ereaders are for very niche crowd--avid readers who want to stop cluttering up the house with physical books.

I didn't buy one to save money. I bought one to not have books laying around that I'll never read again (or wasting time selling or donating them) and the convenience of being able to get books instantly without having to drive somewhere or wait for an online order to arrive.

That's a great point, and I probably never saw it before because I'm an avid reader and have been approaching all this from my own viewpoint. But I wonder, how much of the actual book-buying market consists of avid-readers, and how much is taken up by the casual, buys a few books a year reader? If the majority of the book-buying public is made up of the casual type, then where does the ebook stand in the short term? Is it doomed to languish as a specialist device for the Avid and not the Casual? Can it break out of that niche? Or will convergent devices take over, like the iTouch and other derivatives?

Lots to ponder.

[pagansoul]

I remember when having a personnel computer or a cell phone made you part of a niche group. Now everyone and their dog has a cell phone and over 50% of the homes in America have a computer. Remember when a family had one TV set in the house or one car in the driveway...give the ereader a little time and everyone will own one.

[dmaul1114]

Originally Posted by pagansoul

I remember when having a personnel computer or a cell phone made you part of a niche group. Now everyone and their dog has a cell phone and over 50% of the homes in America have a computer. Remember when a family had one TV set in the house or one car in the driveway...give the ereader a little time and everyone will own one.

The ereader has more barriers since it only does one thing...and it does one thing the majority of people don't do very often.

They will catch on more, but if they are every mainstream it will be in the form of some small tablet pc type of thing that's an easy on the eyes ereader, a computer with internet and e-mail, a pda, a video player, etc. etc.

I could see down the road some easy to carry around all in one device taking place of a lot of these gadgets we use today.

But I don't think pure ereaders will ever catch on as the number of people who read regularly for leisure drops with each generation as people are more enamored by movies, music, video games the internet.

And I'm not being a grumpy old man there, I'm 30 and spend a lot more time on those things than I do on leisure reading. Partly from being an academic and getting burned out on reading scholarly papers, student papers etc.

I do think ereader use will expand and more avid readers will buy them vs. sticking with paper books. Price coming down will have a lot do with that. $300+ is a bit much for a one-purpose device for most people.

[Sonist]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

... But I don't think pure ereaders will ever catch on as the number of people who read regularly for leisure drops with each generation as people are more enamored by movies, music, video games the internet....

Hm, I'd venture a guess, that there are more people who read, than people who play video games.

Yet, it would be hard to argue, that video games have not "caught on."

Moreover, every decent PC can play video games, yet there is a huge market for dedicated, stand-alone and hand-held video game consoles.

I'd say there is enough of a market for ereaders, too.

[dmaul1114]

Originally Posted by Sonist

Hm, I'd venture a guess, that there are more people who read, than people who play video games.

Yet, it would be hard to argue, that video games have not "caught on."

Moreover, every decent PC can play video games, yet there is a huge market for dedicated, stand-alone and hand-held video game consoles.

I'd say there is enough of a market for ereaders, too.

Yeah, but I don't think most people don't own video game consoles, especially people without kids. And the other person said "give it time and everyone will have an ereader."

Also video games are something that require a console (or a PC, but that's almost a different type of gaming in many cases) where as people can read easily without shelling out money for an ereader.

So in either case I don't think it's a good analogy. I think ereaders will catch on and expand after prices are more reasonable, but I'd don't think they will every be something that a majority of people own.

They could well become a large market, and I think they will catch on. But not like the cell phone or computer etc. which other people have mentioned.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by Sonist

Hm, I'd venture a guess, that there are more people who read, than people who play video games.

Yet, it would be hard to argue, that video games have not "caught on."

Moreover, every decent PC can play video games, yet there is a huge market for dedicated, stand-alone and hand-held video game consoles.

I'd say there is enough of a market for ereaders, too.

The Video Game industry is bigger than Hollywood. Anecodatly I know more people who play video games at age 30+ than I do people who read on a regular basis. The video console is firmly entrenched in modern culture, has been since the release of the Sony PS1. With the release of the Wii this has become even more entrenched, that console is responsible for a lot of non-traditional gamers getting into the console buying market.

My thinking at the moment, and after spending some time using the iTouch as a standalone reader, is that the ebook reader might never be anything more than a niche product. Bought by avid readers, but of little interest to the casual reader. I'm not sure there's much room for singular-use devices in a future where the multi-function device becomes the norm.

This is not to say the e-book itself won't be popular, just that it will be read on a multi-function device that is able to do a lot more.

[Sonist]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

... My thinking at the moment, and after spending some time using the iTouch as a standalone reader, is that the ebook reader might never be anything more than a niche product....

Trust me, when I say that the 3.5" screen of the iPhone/iPod is unusable, for most people, for anything but a (very) short read.

The e-ink technology is a totally different animal, and a totally different experience, IMO.

Multi-function is good, but not for everything: I carry a MacBook everywhere when I travel, but I'd never read a book on it on the plane or the hotel. A skinny e-reader is a much more book-like experience and that's why I have one.

I am not saying they'll become as common as cell phones, but I don't think everyone who has a cell phone in the world reads, or is even literate.

But for the foreseeable future, enough people will continue to read. And the new medium will be something like e-ink. Cheaper, better quality, thinner, in color, internet-enabled, flexible, etc., maybe. But not made of paper.

[dmaul1114]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

The Video Game industry is bigger than Hollywood. Anecodatly I know more people who play video games at age 30+ than I do people who read on a regular basis.

Same here. At least when confined to leisure reading as us academics all spend a lot of time reading journal articles, academic books, students papers etc. Probably why so few do much leisure reading and do other stuff in their free time--like play video games.

I'm not sure there's much room for singular-use devices in a future where the multi-function device becomes the norm.

This is not to say the e-book itself won't be popular, just that it will be read on a multi-function device that is able to do a lot more.

Agree 100%. I definitely see a device in the future that's basically a more functional and portable tablet PC that nearly everyone has and uses to read, surf the net, watch videos, take notes etc. etc. It will use color e-ink or something else thats easy on the eyes and has long battery life etc.

Something like that will come along a make ereaders that do nothing but display books, magazines etc. obsolete, and will expand ebooks to a wider market than these single purpose ereaders ever could.

I love my Kindle, but ereaders are a niche within a niche since not that many people are avid readers anymore. So it will take a good multipurpose device to really spike ebook interest and sales. Many won't buy a reader, but they may by ebooks if they have a device that has a lot of features and is also a good reader (unlikely the iPhone with it's tiny back lit screen).

[fugazied]

Making the 'kindle swindle' number 1. lol, hilarious.