Library E-Book Lending Poses Rising Problem for Publishing Industry

[John F]

Originally Posted by leebase

...

Apple lost. But the iPad went on to be a huge success anyway. It's the best way to read ebooks if you have the money.....and you aren't among the tiny fraction of the population who really can't read a screen.

Originally Posted by leebase

It is not subjective that FAR AND AWAY most people have no problems reading on their phones or tablets. There are relatively few percentage-wise that report that they just can't read comfortably on a tablet.

Horses for courses. I have no debate with someone who says "I prefer".

Maybe you can add a few "I prefers" in your posts.

Some people prefer the lighter weight of eink/ereaders. Some people prefer the longer battery life of eink. Some people prefer the ergonomics of eink/ereaders.

So for some people eink/ereaders, is the best way to read ebooks.

YMMV.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Before agency, there were some eBook stores competing very well with Amazon. Fictionwise and BooksOnBoard were two of them. They had business models that competed very well. I know a lot of (then) MR users shopped at Fictionwise and BooksOnBoard. I was one of them.

eBook sales are dropping because of the high prices. Back before agency, eBook sales where doing well and rising. You have to find a sweet spot between price and profit. Agency is not doing that. Agency is going higher then the sweet spot.

Fictionwise was purchased by B&N in 2009, before agency pricing was implemented. You keep repeating this narrative and I keep pointing out that it not only is not true, it can't possibly be true.

Amazon had over 90% of the ebook market by the end of 2008. No, these ebook stores were not competing well. You liked them because you could buy cheap books, but that doesn't mean they had viable business models to compete with Amazon.

You only make money if you can buy goods for less than you sell them for. Discount book dealers made money because they were able to buy books at a discount as publishers and other book sellers were clearing room for the next wave of new books. They also kept cost down by being a bare bones bookstore. This dynamic doesn't occur with ebooks.

[leebase]

Originally Posted by John F

Maybe you can add a few "I prefers" in your posts.

Some people prefer the lighter weight of eink/ereaders. Some people prefer the longer battery life of eink. Some people prefer the ergonomics of eink/ereaders.

So for some people eink/ereaders, is the best way to read ebooks.

YMMV.

Some people, yes....but not nearly as many people that prefer phones and tablets.

[darryl]

Originally Posted by leebase

Some people, yes....but not nearly as many people that prefer phones and tablets.

Is this just your feeling or do you have a particular source for this statement?

[leebase]

Originally Posted by darryl

Is this just your feeling or do you have a particular source for this statement?

You doubt that the billions of smart phones sold and the hundreds of millions of tablets isn’t greater than the number of eInk readers?

[darryl]

Originally Posted by leebase

You doubt that the billions of smart phones sold and the hundreds of millions of tablets isn’t greater than the number of eInk readers?

Of course not. But you are talking about people's preferences. That each of those with tablets and smart phones have not bought e-readers does not mean that they prefer to read on phones or tablets. Many are not readers at all. Others cannot afford a dedicated reader, or cannot justify buying one. Others prefer paper books to e-books full stop.

[leebase]

Originally Posted by darryl

Of course not. But you are talking about people's preferences. That each of those with tablets and smart phones have not bought e-readers does not mean that they prefer to read on phones or tablets. Many are not readers at all. Others cannot afford a dedicated reader, or cannot justify buying one. Others prefer paper books to e-books full stop.

I was speaking of the winners and losers of the battle between the Big5 and Amazon.

From a "market" perspective, the iPad has been a huge success. Apple lost the court case, paid a huge fine...and is really the only loser in the story. However, despite predictions and pearl clutching to the contrary from this forum upon the announcement of the iPad....very few people actually have a problem reading ebooks on an iPad.

That's not an opinion.

That's also not saying "everybody prefers the iPad".

But the iPad is far away the best eBook reader -- which is an opinion. But it's one that's happens to be the One True Opinion.

Every book store is on the iPad. No having to side load books if you like one eInk reader but like a different book store.

But if you WANT to manage your books....Calibre is wonderfully supported.

PDF's? No problem. Excellent PDF reading/highlighting to choose from.

Color? Already there. Wonderful color.

Heavy? Not the iPad Mini.

But if you want a large version, there are 10" and 13" versions you can choose.

Reading outside? Yes, you really can. You may have to hold the iPad in such a way as to not have to deal with glare.

All day battery life. Unless you can't manage to plug your device in at night...there is no battery issue. Of course, you can't read for weeks on a charge. So if you are going on a safari, riding an elephant and going without a bath for a month....take an eInk reader.

No one....no one....knows how many ebooks are read on an eInk device vs how many are read on phone or tablets. But we know there are billions of phones and tablets and only a few tens of millions of eInk devices.

And if you can't read on a phone or a tablet....you either don't know how to adjust the brightness and contrast....or you are part of a small niche of poor very unfortunate souls. (fact and opinion)

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by darryl

Of course not. But you are talking about people's preferences. That each of those with tablets and smart phones have not bought e-readers does not mean that they prefer to read on phones or tablets. Many are not readers at all. Others cannot afford a dedicated reader, or cannot justify buying one. Others prefer paper books to e-books full stop.

I don't think full stop quite yet. Many are probably not even aware of dedicated reading devices, others don't want an additional device even if it might be a bit better.

There have been enough long time mobileread members switching to tablets and phones that I am apprehensive about long term prospects for dedicated readers, but since amazon still makes multiple weeks of production runs prior to release of a minor upgrade to their highest end lowest volume reader and still run out on release, I guess the dedicated reader market is still viable.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by leebase

Apple lost. But the iPad went on to be a huge success anyway. It's the best way to read ebooks if you have the money.....and you aren't among the tiny fraction of the population who really can't read a screen.

Originally Posted by Dazrin

The first part of this is true. The iPad is a huge success.

Everything after that is subjective. I much prefer my e-ink device to reading on an iPad/tablet and it is not just about reading from a screen or the money. There are many other factors that contribute. Weight, size, contrast in daylight, etc.

Originally Posted by John F

Maybe you can add a few "I prefers" in your posts.

Some people prefer the lighter weight of eink/ereaders. Some people prefer the longer battery life of eink. Some people prefer the ergonomics of eink/ereaders.

So for some people eink/ereaders, is the best way to read ebooks.

Yep, making a claim is one thing, supporting that claim with facts is an entirely different thing.

Just because more people buy smartphones and tablets than eReaders doesn't mean more people read on smartphones or tablets. I have a smartphone and tablet both with Kindle's app installed. The only time I actually read on my smartphone is when I'm waiting at the DMV or doctor's office (or some place similar) and that's only when I've forgotten to bring an eReader with me. (I never read on my tablet.) I'm guessing that many of those who read on tablets and smartphones are "casual" readers. I'm also guessing the majority who read a lot (at least an hour daily) are probably doing so on an eInk eReader.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by leebase

Some people, yes....but not nearly as many people that prefer phones and tablets.

Yes, for calling or texting. Or playing games. Just because they can read on phones or tablets doesn't mean they do read on them.

[leebase]

Originally Posted by rcentros

Yes, for calling or texting. Or playing games. Just because they can read on phones or tablets doesn't mean they do read on them.

No one has the numbers so the eInk folks can retain their delusion if they want. Ebook sales are increasing, eInk devices are not. Phones and tablets are.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by leebase

Every book store is on the iPad. No having to side load books if you like one eInk reader but like a different book store.

But if you WANT to manage your books....Calibre is wonderfully supported.

An interesting claim that calibre is "wonderfully supported" on any iOS device. Perhaps you can give details of how this wonderful support is delivered since my experience with using calibre and iOS devices definitely does not fall into the "wonderfully supported" range. Is it the ease of transferring ebooks over USB? Transferring multiple ebooks over wireless? Editing metadata, series info, etc. and being easily able to use this information on the iOS device?

Originally Posted by leebase

Heavy? Not the iPad Mini.

Kobo Forma     197 grams (8" screen)
Kindle Oasis 3 188 grams (7" screen)

iPad Mini 4    298.8 grams WiFi only model (7.9" screen)
iPad Mini 5    300.5 grams WiFi only model (7.9" screen)

iPad Pro       631 grams WiFi only (12.9" screen)
iPad Pro       468 grams WiFi only (11" screen)
iPad Air       456 grams WiFi only (10.5" screen)
Ipad           469 grams WiFi only (9.7" screen)

Hmmm... at over 50% heavier, I suspect quite a few people would consider the iPad Mini to be heavy compared to Kobo and Amazon's large screen ereaders. Especially after holding it for a couple of hours.

[lumpynose]

It's probably understood by everyone here but you guys are talking about novels. I.e., books that are all text, typically printed with black ink. Regarding the costs of producing books, books that use extensive color are much more expensive to produce.

Decades before I retired I taught myself to knit but then stopped, and then after I retired took it up again. My work was computer system administration and programming. Those books could easily cost $40+ and typically $35 was about as low as they went. They were primarily just text, maybe some diagrams done in Illustrator or such, but no need for color photographs. Then when I started knitting after I retired I was surprised at how low the prices are for knitting books; $20 or so. And typically lots of color photographs. The income of knitters, typically housewives, is much lower than computer programmers and system administrators and the books are priced accordingly.

And I worked at a university. I've seen plenty of books for the academics that had breathtaking prices (e.g., Springer Verlag), presumably because the market is so small.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Fictionwise was purchased by B&N in 2009, before agency pricing was implemented. You keep repeating this narrative and I keep pointing out that it not only is not true, it can't possibly be true.

Amazon had over 90% of the ebook market by the end of 2008. No, these ebook stores were not competing well. You liked them because you could buy cheap books, but that doesn't mean they had viable business models to compete with Amazon.

You only make money if you can buy goods for less than you sell them for. Discount book dealers made money because they were able to buy books at a discount as publishers and other book sellers were clearing room for the next wave of new books. They also kept cost down by being a bare bones bookstore. This dynamic doesn't occur with ebooks.

I know B&N bought Fictionwise. But Fictionwise was still working with their successful business model until agency killed Fictionwise's business model. I am not saying that Fictionwise was more successful then Amazon. But they were quite successful witht he way they sold eBooks.

Fictionwise made money because they were good at what they did. They were unable to to do things the way they were because agency killed that. Apple and the price fix six killed off a lot of smaller eBook stores.

[leebase]

If an iPad mini is to heavy for you...then so are books.

Compare any eInk device for getting books on them outside their main bookstore to the iPad. It’s no comparison as every book store has an iPad app. There are iOS apps galore that aren’t tied to a book store but support OPDS, “open in”, Dropbox or any of a half dozen other cloud providers. All of which is true of Android tablets as well. None of which is true of eInk devices.

Comics? You don’t want eInk.
PDFs...not for your typical eInk reader like a kindle.
eInks are not even the low cost option anymore.

That’s why they are a niche. Good for what they are