Amazon 'Destroyed the Retail Industry Across the US'

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by leebase

Well...except all the skilled jobs that are replaced by automation into unskilled jobs. Used to be that "making" took a craftsman. With the advent of the assembly line and other automation, making turned into low skilled factory work.

Then automation went on to start replacing those low skiled jobs that were created by automation in the first place.

Creative destruction. We can only hope it keeps being balanced out by job innovation. Just because it always has, doesn't mean it always will.

Well..
Most of the jobs robots are destroying *are* simple, repetitive, and manual.
Totally unskilled. It will get worse over the next decade as robots expanding their presence in agriculture to picking fruits and vegetables.

But the replacement jobs tend to be technical, require skill/experience, and more than just a high school diploma/attendance certificate. Typically a two year degree at a community college or tech institute will do. Look around, the shortage of mechanics and technicians in all fields is massive.
(Tons of resesrch papers out there documenting the issue, which is global: US, Australia, Europe being just some. Most are dense pdfs, but this isn't:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4287920/)

There is no surplus of skilled workers but there is a surplus of the unskilled, with more popping up everyday.

That is the real problem.
A century ago during the transition from an agrarian to an industrial society spawned the mandatory public school system to enable the trandition. Kids were trained to navigate an industrial society and to fit into assembly lines.

Today's educational system isn't enabling the new transition to a techno!ogical society. If anything it is hindering it by its lack of proper guidance studies. Which is how we already have a massive mismatch between workforce needs and unemployed skills and government at all levels, local to federal is doing zilch. Some companies have resorted to training programs to grow their oen but many find it cheaper to headhunt.

The workers are there; they are neither stupid, lazy, or unmotivated. But the options to get the proper graining are limited and pricey. And the politicians' answer, instead of facilitating training, is to bad-mouth technology, pro.ote taxing robots, and give money for free.

Technology isn't the problem.
Workers aren't the problem.
It's the politicians and those who vote for them.

Neither banning robots nor throwing money will solve tbis problem because it is structural to the education system.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

But the replacement jobs tend to be technical, require skill/experience, and more than just a high school diploma/attendance certificate.

...attendance certificate

[Hyperduel]

It's easy why Amazon has been killing it in the Retail Space: Convenience. It's the same true story, people prefer convenience above everything else. People went from LPs to CD, then to CDs to Digital Files either by buying them or streaming them. When Online Shopping gotten more people, what's the point of going to the store when I can get a better price online.

I give Amazon business since they do so many things right. Also it doesn't hurt I have their Chase Bank Prime credit card, 5% cash back and more debt to Amazon!

[lumpynose]

Originally Posted by Hyperduel

Also it doesn't hurt I have their Chase Bank Prime credit card, 5% cash back and more debt to Amazon!

But remember that it only really works when you pay off your credit card in full each month. At that point it's simply free money. And you get something like 1% for purchases elsewhere. If you're aggressive at using your credit card for everything it does add up. Cold cash is so 20th century.

[FizzyWater]

Originally Posted by Hyperduel

Also it doesn't hurt I have their Chase Bank Prime credit card, 5% cash back and more debt to Amazon!

If you're trying to say that Amazon "owns" the debt of the credit cards, that's not true. The cards belong to Chase.

Amazon could choose to move its co-branding to another bank, and the credit cards would transfer to that bank, that is possible.

But Amazon doesn't have the loss if someone defaults on their credit card bill.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

There is no surplus of skilled workers but there is a surplus of the unskilled, with more popping up everyday.

Tell me about this.

That concisely sums up the whole problem. Makes a lot of sense as it explains why most of the unemployed people consist of those unwilling or incapable of learning a new trade. Even at places (like mine) that have been willing to train inexperienced workers. Hasn't been working out very well as it is harder than one might think to find anybody (experienced or not) to learn a new job that requires weeks of training compared to minutes.

[Tony1988]

Originally Posted by Hyperduel

It's easy why Amazon has been killing it in the Retail Space: Convenience. It's the same true story, people prefer convenience above everything else. People went from LPs to CD, then to CDs to Digital Files either by buying them or streaming them. When Online Shopping gotten more people, what's the point of going to the store when I can get a better price online.

I give Amazon business since they do so many things right. Also it doesn't hurt I have their Chase Bank Prime credit card, 5% cash back and more debt to Amazon!

I usually almost always get the same or better price at physic stores. If it's a bit more still more incentive for me since I get the item within minutes and returns/exchanges happen within minutes as well. As for the credit cards, cash is best for me don't like to use credit card that much. But most credit cards give rewards so that is not really nothing unique with Amazon...the only real incentive shopping with Amazon is if someone doesnt like to leave the house, can't leave the house or lives out in the wilderness. Lol.....

I use Amazon mostly to look at reviews before I purchase in a physical store and to buy things i can't find elsewhere....😃

[Pajamaman]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

The workers are there; they are neither stupid, lazy, or unmotivated. But the options to get the proper graining are limited and pricey. And the politicians' answer, instead of facilitating training, is to bad-mouth technology, pro.ote taxing robots, and give money for free.

Technology isn't the problem.
Workers aren't the problem.
It's the politicians and those who vote for them.

Neither banning robots nor throwing money will solve tbis problem because it is structural to the education system.

To a great extent I agree. A huge problem is the cost of training and education. The only politicians that are addressing it are outliers who are being dismissed or marginalized by political establishment.

But I argue that ultimately increased automation will not create more or as many jobs as it takes. Companies use robots because it makes them more profitable, and labor is a cost. 6 - 3 != 7.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Pajamaman

To a great extent I agree. A huge problem is the cost of training and education. The only politicians that are addressing it are outliers who are being dismissed or marginalized by political establishment.

But I argue that ultimately increased automation will not create more or as many jobs as it takes. Companies use robots because it makes them more profitable, and labor is a cost. 6 - 3 != 7.

Ah, but you need to look at the full market, not just the same facility or industry. Sure, automation will decrease cost of any specific function--that's the whole point--but the savings won't go up in smoke never to be seen. Rather they will be reinvested, like Amazon and most others, in new products, new facilities, or merely more of the same.

Best example is the US productivity explosion of the 90's as computers and the internet transformed vast tracts of the landscape. other effects helped but it was the longest boom ever. Lots of positions were lost in some areas but more jobs opened in other business, mostly techno!ogy and services. Over 23M jobs over the decade.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990...ed_States_boom

What is going to happen is that new jobs that don't exist today will emerge and replace the lost jobs from automation and other changes. Some reports put new jobs as high as 65% 30 years from now.

Think about today and compare it to 30 yards ago: how many website designers, computer animators, additive manufacturing operators, etc existed then?

Or, how about these existing jobs expected to grow in coming times:

https://www.businessinsider.com/the-...ms-managers-14

Have you looked at the end credits of the big billion dollar movies? The horde of names and jobs involved? Those are good paying jobs scattered across America,Europe, Japan,Korea, Australia, New Zealand. Those movies cost a hundred to two hundred to make because tbose aren't sweatshop jobs. A single climatic scene on something like AVENGERS ENDGAME costs millions and takes months to produce on giant computer farms. Somebody has to build them, run them, maintain them. The movie might make a billion but the studio generally gets lets than half. Most of the rest goes to the theater operators, ushers ticket sales persons, cleaners, candy suppliers, etc.

Even agriculture is already tech-heavy. And getting more so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rl77FVobxVI

There will be losses but new tech based jobs will outstrip them.

There's more to good 21st century jobs than turning screws, picking fruit, or filling boxds in warehouses. Little by little, year by year, the shape of the employment market will change...but to take full advantage of it, the educational system will need to adapt. And it isn't.

That is the problem.

[theducks]

It may be regional, but Work Ethic is a major issue.

'Hire 10 to get 1 or 2 dependable worker's '. Seen that proven more times than I could count.

Dependability, punctuality, and a willingness to get the job done in a timely manor. (I'm not talking about regimented, assembly line type jobs. Although, I see attendance issues there also)
Not being able to connect with a co-worker for needed info or materials bogs down everything I'm doing as part of a team.

Vendors and suppliers that don't respond / repair things soonest. 'Its been down for over a week". 'We are waiting for an answer'. 'Payment Checks in the mail '. And my pet peeve: Out sourced inventory ordering and restocking (Jobber only shows up on Wednesdays )

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by theducks

It may be regional, but Work Ethic is a major issue.

'Hire 10 to get 1 or 2 dependable worker's '. Seen that proven more times than I could count.

Dependability, punctuality, and a willingness to get the job done in a timely manor. (I'm not talking about regimented, assembly line type jobs. Although, I see attendance issues there also)
Not being able to connect with a co-worker for needed info or materials bogs down everything I'm doing as part of a team.

Vendors and suppliers that don't respond / repair things soonest. 'Its been down for over a week". 'We are waiting for an answer'. 'Payment Checks in the mail '. And my pet peeve: Out sourced inventory ordering and restocking (Jobber only shows up on Wednesdays )

Human factors matter.

The last time the US hit full employment, the mid 90's, low end employers were offering their employees bounties to recruit workers and failing. It wasn't finding bodies, it was things like showing up on time, or at all, showing up drunk or stoned, following instructions, dealing with customers. Cleveland had a nationally recognised program that succeeded in teaching never-employed the basic skills in keeping the jobs but it took time and cost money.

https://case.edu/ech/articles/c/cleveland-works-inc

At the time unemployment was 3% and the remaining were deemed unemployable. Things have changed since then, with a large number of employables no longer part of the work force, so the numbers are different but at the very bottom there is a core of unemployables that aren't trainable for even basic non-tech jobs.

Unavoidable.

[Apache]

Originally Posted by theducks

It may be regional, but Work Ethic is a major issue.

'Hire 10 to get 1 or 2 dependable worker's '. Seen that proven more times than I could count.

Dependability, punctuality, and a willingness to get the job done in a timely manor. (I'm not talking about regimented, assembly line type jobs. Although, I see attendance issues there also)
Not being able to connect with a co-worker for needed info or materials bogs down everything I'm doing as part of a team.

Vendors and suppliers that don't respond / repair things soonest. 'Its been down for over a week". 'We are waiting for an answer'. 'Payment Checks in the mail '. And my pet peeve: Out sourced inventory ordering and restocking (Jobber only shows up on Wednesdays )

Every generation complains about the lack of work ethic in the younger generation. Even Aristotle complained about the younger generation in the 4th Century BC. I doubt that he was the first.
Apache

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Apache

Every generation complains about the lack of work ethic in the younger generation. Even Aristotle complained about the younger generation in the 4th Century BC. I doubt that he was the first.
Apache

Hmmm...

They [Young People] have exalted notions, because they have not been humbled by life or learned its necessary limitations; moreover, their hopeful disposition makes them think themselves equal to great things -- and that means having exalted notions. They would always rather do noble deeds than useful ones: Their lives are regulated more by moral feeling than by reasoning -- all their mistakes are in the direction of doing things excessively and vehemently. They overdo everything -- they love too much, hate too much, and the same with everything else. — Aristotle

Is that the quote you were thinking of? It has nothing to do with work ethic unless you are seeing work ethic in the "much the same with everything else" in the "they overdo everything" comment.

[Apache]

You are correct that was the one. I would think that doing noble deeds rather than useful ones is related to work ethic.
How about this quote attributed to Hesiod from the 8th Century BC:

I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise [disrespectful] and impatient of restraint".

Apache

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Apache

You are correct that was the one. I would think that doing noble deeds rather than useful ones is related to work ethic.
How about this quote attributed to Hesiod from the 8th Century BC:

Apache

Did they have addictive drugs in Greece in those days?
Or was it all wine and lotus?