Why e-books, e-audiobooks could be harder to snag at your local library

[crane3]

There is another 'hidden' cost of ebooks for the library that can occur as pointed out in another thread. As the publishers still own the ebooks, any ebook can be recalled(?) if a publisher pulls a microsoft recall(?). Both book & money loss.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

At bookfinder.com I'm finding this for $9.76 new in hardcover, or $5.74 for a new paperback.

So you are showing the ebook is even more overpriced than the original comparison ($12.78 compared to $87.00 makes the price gouging look even worse). When I did a search involving shipment to Canada, BookFinder came up with $21.80 as the lowest cost with standard shipping to Canada and $200.01 (from Books Express via Biblio.co.uk -- thanks for the chuckle) as the highest. By comparison, Chapters/Indigo has the book for $24.57.

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

That's only true if the person purchasing the 350 pbooks isn't worrying about the cost of housing those books, perhaps because the capital budget is someone else's problem.

Or it could be that they discard one older book for each paper book they buy. As someone who often reads books published 20 - 50 years ago, I don't like that. I think there should be a value given to the loss of the opportunity to read the older book.

Libraries do discard books on a regular basis. Some due to the poor condition of the pbook, other times due to needing the space and the book having no loans over a time period (in the case I have some knowledge of, a hardcover has to sit on the shelf for a minimum of 5 years) though most of those end up in a for sale bin. Other books will be moved into inactive storage from which a patron can still request a loan though it may take a couple of days for the book to be made available.

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

One of the many advantages of leasing an eBook is that the library doesn't have to choose between physical expansion and deaccessioning.

I'm not saying that the eBook lease is always a good buy. I am saying that I've never seen a plausible cost comparison.

Whereas the price comparisons I've seen and discussed with library staff members are that a hardcover pbook averages about 42% of the cost of an ebook. We'll leave out the fixed life of an ebook either in time or loan count. And since the library pays the same for salaries, etc., those costs are pretty much a non-player in discussing post-purchase costs.

[meeera]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Personally, I think a better solution is for libraries to leave ebooks and audiobooks to private companies. I know it's sacrilege to some here, but it's really not a particular good match for a libraries core mission, which is generally tied to the local community.

Given that a fair few of the local community are print-disabled and/or housebound, suggesting that local libraries abandon accessible formats seems a rather terrible suggestion to me.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by meeera

Given that a fair few of the local community are print-disabled and/or housebound, suggesting that local libraries abandon accessible formats seems a rather terrible suggestion to me.

Ah, the solve world hunger argument. If you can't be all to everyone, it's not a good solution. In general, the more limited a solution is, the more likely that it's sustainable. Sometimes, special circumstances require a specialized solution.

For example, the Chafee amendment in the US allows for an exception to copyright law for the legally blind. That particular mechanism is likely a better solution for the print-disabled. There is the NLS, or national library service, which provides such books to those qualified. So every library doesn't have to be a be all to everyone.

Of course, we also run into the real question of this whole debate, i.e. what is the core purpose of public libraries, and to what extent is the modern never ending copyright compatible with that. If copyright was still at 28 years, then much of the issues involving libraries and ebooks would be moot.

[John F]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

That was for all six locations with a total of, I think, around 170,000 books. So staff costs alone come to maybe $19 per paper book per year.

...

So 85,000 * $45 = $3,825,000 every year for ebooks.

Current for "Collections" is $590,000. Total operating expenditures for the library is $4,700,000. Staff cost is $3,300,000.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by DNSB

So you are showing the ebook is even more overpriced than the original comparison ($12.78 compared to $87.00 makes the price gouging look even worse).

This of course is not my point. The library here would no more buy the paper book from a vendor that caters to the general public than the county would try to lease the eBook directly from Amazon.

The paper book cost, for a library, mostly consists of the real estate to house it and the staff to handle the physical object. The eBook cost is mostly what is paid to Overdrive/Freading/Hoopla/Axis 360/Cloud Library.

Originally Posted by DNSB

And since the library pays the same for salaries, etc., those costs are pretty much a non-player in discussing post-purchase costs.

I am missing something here. Are you saying that it takes library staff salary whenever I borrow an eBook? Or are you assuming that the number of library staff is chiseled in stone and has nothing to do with how much work they have to do? If the latter, maybe that explains our disconnect. Overdrive and competitors offer a form of automation for library staff jobs. It takes away some of the lower level tasks associated with running what amounts to a warehouse for books, giving more time for librarians to do higher level tasks such as selecting books for acquisition and helping patrons.

Originally Posted by meeera

Given that a fair few of the local community are print-disabled and/or housebound, suggesting that local libraries abandon accessible formats seems a rather terrible suggestion to me.

I agree. While we have fairly strong separate provision for a lot of these readers in the U.S., these are oriented towards audio books and braille, and so may leave out a lot of the population with needs.

This brings up another saving when the library leases an eBook. Where I live, and in much of the rest of the U.S., the housebound can get free delivery and return of paper books. This isn't paid for by my local library, but it does come out of my taxes. Some places, like my county, use the mails for this, while other places have a specialized delivery service. Having a good eBook collection must reduce housebound delivery costs.

If DNSB is right about the gouging, then it is irresponsible for American public libraries -- or other countries with comparable infrastructure -- to patronize Overdrive. They should instead refer patrons, with serious needs, to either the borrowing system for the housebound, or the National Library Service for the Blind and Physically Handicapped. But if I'm right that the Overdrive total cost of ownership is competitive, then the libraries should offer a mix of pbooks and eBooks so that readers with differing preferences can be accommodated.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

But if I'm right that the Overdrive total cost of ownership is competitive, then the libraries should offer a mix of pbooks and eBooks so that readers with differing preferences can be accommodated.

This, of course, is complete hogwash. There is absolutely no reason that the publishers are all of a sudden entitled to all the money that the library is not spending on storing and caring for pbooks.

[leebase]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

This, of course, is complete hogwash. There is absolutely no reason that the publishers are all of a sudden entitled to all the money that the library is not spending on storing and caring for pbooks.

They are entitled to all the money derived from consuming their product. It’s a business negotiation. Publishers and libraries need each other. They have ALWAYS argued over terms as to who gets what.

If publishers don’t sell to libraries, they are leaving money on the table. They are also missing out on audience acquisition.

Libraries obviously can’t exist without books. In order to gain and grow their own audience, a library needs to have the books that people want to read.

They will work it out...and bitch and moan about all the steps along the way

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

This, of course, is complete hogwash. There is absolutely no reason that the publishers are all of a sudden entitled to all the money that the library is not spending on storing and caring for pbooks.

And there is absolutely no reason that libraries are suddenly entitled to get ebooks subsidized by the authors and publishers.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by leebase

They are entitled to all the money derived from consuming their product. It’s a business negotiation. Publishers and libraries need each other. They have ALWAYS argued over terms as to who gets what.

If publishers don’t sell to libraries, they are leaving money on the table. They are also missing out on audience acquisition.

Libraries obviously can’t exist without books. In order to gain and grow their own audience, a library needs to have the books that people want to read.

They will work it out...and bitch and moan about all the steps along the way

One question is exactly what sort of ebook market libraries really are. Is it really a small, vocal market, or do lots of people use it.

[leebase]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

One question is exactly what sort of ebook market libraries really are. Is it really a small, vocal market, or do lots of people use it.

I keep forgetting my town has a nice library system. I just checked and they have an extensive ebook ability (like 6 options including Overdrive).

I was talking to a friend just last night and mentioned a book. He opened up OverDrive and checked it out from his library.

Anecdotes....but apparently - ebooks and audio books are thriving at libraries

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

I am missing something here. Are you saying that it takes library staff salary whenever I borrow an eBook? Or are you assuming that the number of library staff is chiseled in stone and has nothing to do with how much work they have to do? If the latter, maybe that explains our disconnect. Overdrive and competitors offer a form of automation for library staff jobs. It takes away some of the lower level tasks associated with running what amounts to a warehouse for books, giving more time for librarians to do higher level tasks such as selecting books for acquisition and helping patrons.

The costs for the staff, etc. are not that easily variable or as you phrased it, "chiseled in stone". The majority of the libraries in the province are unionized which makes it much harder for the management to do staff cuts on an ad hoc basis while the costs for the physical plant are a fixed and sunk cost with the number of staff, books, etc. having little effect.

I don't know about the American situation, but most of the local libaries are members of the BC Library Cooperative (Library 2 Go) in addition to any ebook purchases by the larger libraries and/or regional libraries. This does give a larger population using the library which help with the costs for some of the smaller local libraries by spreading the costs between all the members.

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

If DNSB is right about the gouging, then it is irresponsible for American public libraries -- or other countries with comparable infrastructure -- to patronize Overdrive. They should instead refer patrons, with serious needs, to either the borrowing system for the housebound, or the National Library Service for the Blind and Physically Handicapped. But if I'm right that the Overdrive total cost of ownership is competitive, then the libraries should offer a mix of pbooks and eBooks so that readers with differing preferences can be accommodated.

Once again, the prices for library ebooks has nothing to do with Overdrive or any other ebook services supplier. The publishers are the ones setting the price for the ebooks being sold to libraries.

Overdrive will happily allow your library to lend you an open epub/pdf, see How to read Open EPUB or Open PDF ebooks on a computer. They still get their fee for the loan.

When you look on Amazon and purchase a book which states it's price is set by publisher do you still blame Amazon for the pricing? When you head over to your local Ford dealership, do you blame the dealership for Ford's MSRP?

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by DNSB

The costs for the staff, etc. are not that easily variable or as you phrased it, "chiseled in stone". The majority of the libraries in the province are unionized which makes it much harder for the management to do staff cuts on an ad hoc basis while the costs for the physical plant are a fixed and sunk cost with the number of staff, books, etc. having little effect.

I was thinking in my last post to say that I hoped any staff cuts, due to automation of library staff jobs, would be by attrition. So I will say it now. I'll also mention that labor contracts are something to consider in the total cost of ownership of an eBook. If moving to eBooks is too rapid, external costs like labor strife will escalate.

Originally Posted by DNSB

Once again, the prices for library ebooks has nothing to do with Overdrive or any other ebook services supplier. The publishers are the ones setting the price for the ebooks being sold to libraries.

You are correct, taken literally. However, my understanding is that Overdrive and competitors charge libraries fees in addition to what they pay for individual books. I suppose you may say that this makes it an even more egregious example of gouging than you were previously claiming. But this is why I never claimed that eBooks are cheaper for the library than pbooks. There are lots of hidden costs all around.

Originally Posted by DNSB

When you head over to your local Ford dealership, do you blame the dealership for Ford's MSRP?

Strange example.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

And there is absolutely no reason that libraries are suddenly entitled to get ebooks subsidized by the authors and publishers.

Subsidized? Read again, who said anything about subsidizing? Treat pbooks and ebooks equally when it comes to libraries. It is akin to charging double and more for an ebook compared to a pbook just because you are spared the expense of having a bookshelf at home. Publishers don't do it to you, why do they do it to libraries?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by leebase

It should be rather simple. For every ebook sold to a library, what would be the expected reduction of sales. Price said ebook in such a way that THEN makes sense for the publisher.

Same can be said of pBooks yet pBooks do nt cost nearly as much. I know pBooks can be damaged or worn out, but I've seen many old pBooks in perfectly good condition.