FREE/BARGAIN — Science Fiction & Fantasy

[JohnMorris]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

That's a movie only addition

Not every story needs a dramatic twist ending. But for the story being told and the point being made, that ending was so perfect that I have to wonder if Harry wasn't kicking himself for not having thought of it.

Many years ago I was in the audience of a talk by Harry Harrison, and the topic of "Make Room! Make Room!" and "Soylent Green" came up.

He absolutely _hated_ that film, and excoriated whoever was responsible for that twist. He named the name, but it escapes me now. However I do recall him noting that whoever it was "rapes puppies at midnight".

I still, somewhere, have my autographed (and by now very battered) copy of "Bill the Galactic Hero" from that evening. He wrote "Bill Lives!" above his signature.

[GeoffR]

Excession by Iain M. Banks is $2.99 at Australian and New Zealand retailers.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by JohnMorris

Many years ago I was in the audience of a talk by Harry Harrison, and the topic of "Make Room! Make Room!" and "Soylent Green" came up.

He absolutely _hated_ that film, and excoriated whoever was responsible for that twist. He named the name, but it escapes me now. However I do recall him noting that whoever it was "rapes puppies at midnight".

I haven't read the book yet, so I'll reserve judgement on him. But in the film at least, the twist is completely justified by the rest of the story. And it's such a punch because as you see in the background what's happening to the world, the twist is logical and maybe even the best of the bad options available.

[Difflugia]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I haven't read the book yet, so I'll reserve judgement on him. But in the film at least, the twist is completely justified by the rest of the story. And it's such a punch because as you see in the background what's happening to the world, the twist is logical and maybe even the best of the bad options available.

In Harrison's worlds, governments typically made better decisions than individuals and were benevolent. In his stories, characters that choose individualism over the common good are foils to the heroes that act selflessly. Furthermore, Harrison's antagonists more often act badly out of provincialism and bigotry rather than malice. An evil government conspiracy enabled by a complacent citizenry is exactly the opposite of his vision of dystopia. In fact, I'd bet that a Harrison hero would have championed soylent green and detractors would have been portrayed as backward and unenlightened. I suspect that Harrison didn't like the movie specifically because the end was fitting.

Bringing up Blade Runner again, I don't know how Philip K. Dick would have felt about the movie, but there was the same sort of philosophical reversal from the book. In the book, androids couldn't empathize and thus could never be genuinely human. Even a mentally slow human was more human and more heroic than a genius android. In the movie, the situation was reversed. Replicants, despite having intentionally short lifespans and incomplete memories, cherished and valued first their own humanity and then, in the twist ending, the humanity of another as much as or more than a genuine human would.

"You gotta tell 'em! Soylent Green is made from nonrenewable resources! Nonrenewable!"

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by Difflugia

In Harrison's worlds, governments typically made better decisions than individuals and were benevolent. In his stories, characters that choose individualism over the common good are foils to the heroes that act selflessly. Furthermore, Harrison's antagonists more often act badly out of provincialism and bigotry rather than malice. An evil government conspiracy enabled by a complacent citizenry is exactly the opposite of his vision of dystopia. In fact, I'd bet that a Harrison hero would have championed soylent green and detractors would have been portrayed as backward and unenlightened. I suspect that Harrison didn't like the movie specifically because the end was fitting.

I don't know. Maybe.

Thing is, I agree with what you represent as Harrison's attitude towards government vs. individual decision making. If anything, in Soylent Green, the truth isn't so much kept from the public due to maliciousness, as to protect them from how bleak things have gotten. Much like we take off our shoes at the airport not because it accomplishes anything, but because it makes the public feel like something is being done.

All this talk about that movie. I guess I ought to watch it again soon.

[andyh2000]

Originally Posted by Difflugia

In Harrison's worlds, governments typically made better decisions than individuals and were benevolent. In his stories, characters that choose individualism over the common good are foils to the heroes that act selflessly. ...

That's not how I remember the Stainless Steel Rat books. Didn't Slippery Jim always go his own way fixing the mistakes of bumbling bureaucracies?

Andrew

[Difflugia]

Originally Posted by andyh2000

That's not how I remember the Stainless Steel Rat books. Didn't Slippery Jim always go his own way fixing the mistakes of bumbling bureaucracies?

Andrew

The government was cumbersome, but was also always the ultimate good guy.

Jim was (I think) a government agent that had once been a criminal. The bureaucracy was well-meaning, but had too much inertia to react to an evil genius, so there was a secret agency that specifically dealt with them. Jim was the hero because he used his talents to help society rather than for individual gain. Harrison also had a soft spot in general for villains that became good guys and I seem to recall that's how Jim found his wife.

I think. Now I need to dig those out and read them again. They were actually my introduction to Harrison's books and I didn't notice the pro-government sentiments the first time I read them. It was one of his short stories (something about airlifting toilets to a non-technological village? I Googled for it, but couldn't find it) where his political thought was much more in-your-face that made me start looking deeper into the other ones.

[ottdmk]

I don't have a lot of the Stainless Steel Rat books, (I have four) but the ones I remember best are "A Stainless Steel Rat is Born" and "The Stainless Steel Rat Gets Drafted." Jim DiGriz becomes a criminal mainly because he's bored. The universe is basically a utopia. Government is basically a force of nature, neither good nor evil. It simply *is*, and the vast majority of the populace have safe (and to Jim, very dull) lives.

[ZodWallop]

Speaking of Harry Harrison, I've always wanted to read A Transatlantic Tunnel, Hurrah! There doesn't appear to be a digital version. But I thought there was. Are my memories mistaken, or did it go OOP?

[ReadingManiac]

Originally Posted by salty-horse

Two Kindle Daily Deals of note:

Dying of the Light by George R. R. Martin - $1.99 - Link


Make Room! Make Room! by Harry Harrison - $1.99 - Link
The basis for Soylent Green.

Oooh, Martin does Space Opera!

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Speaking of Harry Harrison, I've always wanted to read A Transatlantic Tunnel, Hurrah! There doesn't appear to be a digital version. But I thought there was. Are my memories mistaken, or did it go OOP?

As far as I recall, it is available in the UK as Tunnel Through the Deeps from Gateway Essentials.

Edit: just checked and Kobo and Amazon.co.uk show it but only for UK.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by DNSB

As far as I recall, it is available in the UK as Tunnel Through the Deeps from Gateway Essentials.

Edit: just checked and Kobo and Amazon.co.uk show it but only for UK.

Unfortunately, most of Gateway’s books are unavailable in the US due to rights issues. Most should be available in non-US countries, however, so I’d be surprised if this book were only to be available in the UK.

[Apache]

Originally Posted by Difflugia

The government was cumbersome, but was also always the ultimate good guy.

Jim was (I think) a government agent that had once been a criminal. The bureaucracy was well-meaning, but had too much inertia to react to an evil genius, so there was a secret agency that specifically dealt with them. Jim was the hero because he used his talents to help society rather than for individual gain. Harrison also had a soft spot in general for villains that became good guys and I seem to recall that's how Jim found his wife.

I think. Now I need to dig those out and read them again. They were actually my introduction to Harrison's books and I didn't notice the pro-government sentiments the first time I read them. It was one of his short stories (something about airlifting toilets to a non-technological village? I Googled for it, but couldn't find it) where his political thought was much more in-your-face that made me start looking deeper into the other ones.

I have all of them in paper and loved the satire.

His love interest, Angelina - also a criminal genius, but lacking in Jim's relatively high moral codes and strictures against killing. She is attempting to have an illegal space battleship built on an otherwise peaceful planet. Angelina was born unattractive and committed crimes to pay for her transformation into a beautiful woman; her psychological traumas are treated when Jim captures her, but she retains her allure and her criminal tendencies and joins in the Special Corps as Jim's partner.

Apache

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by DNSB

As far as I recall, it is available in the UK as Tunnel Through the Deeps from Gateway Essentials.

Edit: just checked and Kobo and Amazon.co.uk show it but only for UK.

Thanks for checking!

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by Difflugia

The government was cumbersome, but was also always the ultimate good guy.

Jim was (I think) a government agent that had once been a criminal. The bureaucracy was well-meaning, but had too much inertia to react to an evil genius, so there was a secret agency that specifically dealt with them. Jim was the hero because he used his talents to help society rather than for individual gain. Harrison also had a soft spot in general for villains that became good guys and I seem to recall that's how Jim found his wife.

I think. Now I need to dig those out and read them again. They were actually my introduction to Harrison's books and I didn't notice the pro-government sentiments the first time I read them. It was one of his short stories (something about airlifting toilets to a non-technological village? I Googled for it, but couldn't find it) where his political thought was much more in-your-face that made me start looking deeper into the other ones.

The story is Commando Raid. (1970)

See
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?28

In The Collection Stainless Steel Visions

My library has around 60 or so Harrison short stories in it.

For Harrison's take on Hollywood, read Technicolor Time Machine