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Old 06-23-2019, 09:44 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by exaltedwombat View Post
Yup. But WE don't get to choose what reader our audience will use. I keep Aldiko on my tablet to check compatibility.
So are you saying I should use crappy CSS in order to make a deficient e-reader app work?

But I admit I haven't tried Aldiko so I'll give it a shot and see how bad it is.
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Old 06-23-2019, 10:47 PM   #17
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[...] and of the various android ebook apps I've tried only PocketBook does a proper job. All of the others, moon+, librera, etc.
The issue with most Android readers (such as Moon+), is that they throw away almost 100% of the book's CSS, and override completely with user styles. Even basics like:
  • Negative indented poetry
  • blank margins separating scenes

become completely mangled.

Gitden and PocketBook are damn good, and do a great job of following the original CSS, while still allowing some user-setting leeway.

The best you can do is code your book properly for the major retailers/ereaders, and ignore these non-standards compliant Android apps. If a user decides to use one of those apps, they should be aware of the flaws that come along for the ride.

Side Note: I've been using Gitden Reader on my phone for years. It's been my go-to that entire time if I'm not reading on my ereader. Downside is the app hasn't been updated for years.

Within the past few weeks, I had PocketBook recommended to me. It's updated more often, and from what I can tell so far, it's one of the best Android readers.

PocketBook uses Webkit-based rendering, or you can alternatively use ADE (RMSDK [EPUB2]/Readium [EPUB3])... so it should support lots of advanced CSS, and in ADE mode, it should display extremely similar to actual ereaders.

Last edited by Tex2002ans; 06-23-2019 at 10:54 PM.
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Old 06-24-2019, 01:06 AM   #18
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The PocketBook app is made by the same Swiss company that makes the physical PocketBook ereader. I followed the link to their home page from its page on google play.
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Old 06-24-2019, 01:19 AM   #19
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The best you can do is code your book properly for the major retailers/ereaders, and ignore these non-standards compliant Android apps. If a user decides to use one of those apps, they should be aware of the flaws that come along for the ride.
I'm glad to hear you say that. The idea of "dumbing down" or whatever, my css in order to make half-baked Android apps happy is not a pleasant prospect.
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Old 06-25-2019, 01:28 PM   #20
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I'm glad to hear you say that. The idea of "dumbing down" or whatever, my css in order to make half-baked Android apps happy is not a pleasant prospect.
When it's merely a matter of styling, sure I'm right with you. But when some readers completely refuse to display images over a certain pixel count, it's harder to wash our hands of the issue.
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Old 06-25-2019, 02:20 PM   #21
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When it's merely a matter of styling, sure I'm right with you. But when some readers completely refuse to display images over a certain pixel count, it's harder to wash our hands of the issue.
For what I'm doing, public domain books uploaded here, I'm trying to anticipate the lowest common denominator and assuming the worst, and trying to make books that look reasonably nice but are no-frills. Meaning no fun stuff like images and embedded fonts. I also want to keep them as slim as possible since I'm combining books; for example a series.

So the only image is the cover. But what pixel count should I know about to avoid? I'm totally clueless about what's a good size to make the cover images.
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Old 06-25-2019, 04:43 PM   #22
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So the only image is the cover. But what pixel count should I know about to avoid? I'm totally clueless about what's a good size to make the cover images.
You should be able to safely stick with 1200px width, so depending on the ratio of your cover:

1.4 = 1200 x 1680
1.5 = 1200 x 1800
1.6 = 1200 x 1920

Those are high enough resolution for newer devices, and low enough that older devices can scale them down fine.

Older devices, like my Nook (1st gen), would chug while displaying those large images, but they would eventually appear. When the resolution became so large it couldn't fit in RAM, the Nook would refuse to display them.

Newer devices should be more powerful, and 1600px is a "recommended minimum", so:

1.4 = 1600 x 2240
1.5 = 1600 x 2400
1.6 = 1600 x 2560

Side Note: I haven't tested it in years, but I believe the limit on my Nook was ~3.5 million pixels. Beyond that point, the images wouldn't even display.

Quote:
Originally Posted by exaltedwombat View Post
But when some readers completely refuse to display images over a certain pixel count, it's harder to wash our hands of the issue.
Hmmm, I still would be interested seeing the original poster's images. Or a sample EPUB with this issue.

It could also be they're accidentally using CMYK or something strange instead of RGB.

I haven't messed with Aldiko in many years, but last time I tested it on my old phone, even larger images displayed fine.

Last edited by Tex2002ans; 06-25-2019 at 04:47 PM.
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Old 06-25-2019, 05:01 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex2002ans View Post
You should be able to safely stick with 1200px width, so depending on the ratio of your cover:

1.4 = 1200 x 1680
1.5 = 1200 x 1800
1.6 = 1200 x 1920
Newer devices should be more powerful, and 1600px is a "recommended minimum", so:

1.4 = 1600 x 2240
1.5 = 1600 x 2400
1.6 = 1600 x 2560
My personal preferences are 1500x1000 (3:2) or 1500x1125 (4:3). Larger images tend to give me an epub file where the text takes <300K and the cover image is >500K. I'd rather have the smaller cover image and file size.

If the ebook looks good in ADE and/or RMSDK, with the epub3 renderer on my Kobo and with Kindle Previewer, that's as far as I go. The few times that I wasted hours trying to make an ebook look good on multiple renderers were pretty much exactly that: wasted hours. This renderer doesn't center text unless it is wrapped in a centered div, this one doesn't won't scale the image in a graphic scene break, this one tosses out the CSS embedded in the ebook and uses it's own builtin CSS, this one makes any dropcaps look like crapcaps, etc.
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Old 06-25-2019, 06:21 PM   #24
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My personal preferences are 1500x1000 (3:2) or 1500x1125 (4:3). Larger images tend to give me an epub file where the text takes <300K and the cover image is >500K. I'd rather have the smaller cover image and file size.
Yes, I agree about the filesize.

Something just niggles at the back of my mind when I see a 2 MB book with a 1.8 MB cover. :P

I personally set a soft ~1MB limit on my covers, and 1600px covers easily fit into that while still at >95 JPG Quality.

Side Note: When I first started, I used 800x1200 covers, because all the major stores still accepted/recommended that.

Since larger and higher resolution/DPI devices have come out though...

All the major stores updated their specs to 1600px minimum.

So sure, if you're making it on your own, for your own personal devices, go with lower resolution covers.

If you're creating for sale though, go higher resolution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DNSB View Post
this one tosses out the CSS embedded in the ebook and uses it's own builtin CSS, this one makes any dropcaps look like crapcaps, etc.
crapcaps.

I'm going to use that from now on.
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Old 06-25-2019, 06:50 PM   #25
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If the ebook looks good in ADE and/or RMSDK, ...
How can I test on RMSDK? I have ADE and Kindle Previewer installed.
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Old 06-25-2019, 07:01 PM   #26
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Thanks for the numbers guys. For my stuff these will be for books uploaded here. Plain and simple, just black text on a white background. I might get wild and use some silly display font but that's as exciting as it gets. The most recent one I made was even bigger than the biggest one you listed and its PNG was only 21 kb, but I'll redo its dimensions since I haven't used it yet.
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Old 06-25-2019, 07:06 PM   #27
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How can I test on RMSDK? I have ADE and Kindle Previewer installed.
EPUB2

RMSDK is the Adobe EPUB2 renderer, which was pretty much used in all ereaders.

You can use Adobe Digital Editions (ADE):

https://www.adobe.com/uk/solutions/e.../download.html

Side Note: Older devices use older versions of RMSDK though, so there could be bugs on actual ereaders that don't appear in the latest versions of ADE. And ereaders typically give you access to a lot more customizability (line-height, margins, portrait/landscape, [...]). This is partially why it's recommended to test on actual devices too!

EPUB3

EPUB3 is split:
  • Many are Readium-based, including ADE.
  • Kobo uses Nickel (I believe it's Webkit-based).
  • iBooks has been off doing their own thing the entire time (Webkit-based).

Kindle Previewer

Similar to the EPUB2 note above, Kindle Previewer 3 removed previewing of the old MOBI (KF7).

MOBI fallbacks are still needed for the millions of Kindle 1+2 and DX floating around.

I have an older version of Kindle Previewer 2 on my computer for testing.

Last edited by Tex2002ans; 06-25-2019 at 07:17 PM.
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Old 06-25-2019, 07:13 PM   #28
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RMSDK is the Adobe EPUB2 renderer, which was pretty much used in all ereaders.

You can use Adobe Digital Editions (ADE):

https://www.adobe.com/uk/solutions/e.../download.html

Side Note: Older devices use older versions of RMSDK though, so there could be bugs on actual ereaders that don't appear in the latest versions of ADE. And ereaders typically give you access to a lot more customizability (line-height, margins, portrait/landscape, [...]). This is partially why it's recommended to test on actual devices too!

EPUB3 is split:
  • Many are Readium-based, including ADE.
  • Kobo uses Nickel (I believe it's Webkit-based).
  • iBooks has been off doing their own thing the entire time (Webkit-based).
Ok, thanks. I have a Kobo. I also just learned that when I export to MOBI from Kindle Preview that it leaves my CSS intact (or maybe nearly so) and I have an Oasis.
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Old 06-25-2019, 07:34 PM   #29
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Ok, thanks. I have a Kobo. [...]
(I edited my previous post slightly with more information.)

I also wrote a lot of this information months ago in these two Reddit threads:

Kindle Formatting Woes

What are the pros and cons of ePub vs MOBI?

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I also just learned that when I export to MOBI from Kindle Preview that it leaves my CSS intact (or maybe nearly so) and I have an Oasis.
There's 3 main types of Kindle files:
  • MOBI (KF7)
    • Kindle 1+2 and DX.
    • Calibre calls this AZW.
  • KF8
    • Kindle 3+
    • Calibre calls this AZW3.
  • KFX
    • (I believe this is also Kindle 3+.)
    • This is their most recent format. You can tell when the book says it has "Enhanced Typesetting".

See the topics above for some more detailed explanation.

To really simplify things:
  • KF7 is some crippled step-child.
  • KF8 is "pretty much an EPUB".
  • And KFX, while looking nice on the outside, is an absolute disgusting thing underneath the surface.

But if it works in EPUB, it probably works the same in KF8 + KFX.

An issue with Amazon's ecosystem is, you'll always have that KF7 deadweight hanging on your leg:

If you work in simple Fiction that's purely text, you're probably fine.

But if you're working on Non-Fiction, or doing more complex things (like Poetry/Formulas)... that's where you begin to run into issues on the ol' KF7 edge-cases, and have to code MOBI-specific fallbacks.

Last edited by Tex2002ans; 06-25-2019 at 07:42 PM.
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Old 06-25-2019, 07:53 PM   #30
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There's 3 main types of Kindle files:
  • MOBI (KF7)
    • Kindle 1+2 and DX.
    • Calibre calls this AZW.
  • KF8
    • Kindle 3+
    • Calibre calls this AZW3.
  • KFX
    • (I believe this is also Kindle 3+.)
    • This is their most recent format. You can tell when the book says it has "Enhanced Typesetting".
I think I've been confused because there's also a 4th type, the dual MOBI, which has both KF7 and KF8, if I understand correctly.

Whenever I saw a post from someone asking about problems making a MOBI I'd encourage them to make an AZW3/KF8 instead because I was thinking of the old KF7 MOBI, but they could have been thinking of the dual MOBI? And then a lot of web sites talk about MOBI like it's the go to kindle format. I've never tried it but I'm guessing that calibre makes KF7, not a dual MOBI, when you tell it to make a MOBI.

Kindle Previewer makes a dual MOBI when you export from it. Hitch convinced me that when uploading here that I should upload the dual MOBI; I was going to extract the KF8 and upload that.

Edit: I forgot to say that I'm going to ignore KFX for uploading here. People who prefer flush right margins and download any books I make will have to soldier through with my ragged right margins.

Last edited by lumpynose; 06-25-2019 at 07:59 PM.
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