Savoring a story

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

I gave up on Martin years ago. Clearly he's not interested in finishing the series and I very much doubt he'll ever do so. Luckily for me I like the TV series, so I'll be satisfied with that.

A lot of people are upset with George Martin, and I cannot deny I was one of them too.

Eventually though, I made excuses for him. As clever as he is, he did some dumb stuff, and paid a heavy price ... if not financially ... the rich bugger.

He tried to be too clever, took on too much, and paid the price. He had competing obligations, and frankly put himself under too much pressure. He was clearly an idiot to do so, but I forgive him.

I might feel differently if he never produces more books to complete the series. Especially if he refuses to go the Robert Jordan route, like he has said he would never allow. We have bought into his universe, we have made him rich, and in a way he owes us completion ... if he is capable of it. He may no longer be capable, and that is life.

I intend to re-read his series at some point, and I don't want that over-shadowed by a grudge. What he has written so far, has given me great joy.

Just for the record, I have only ever watched the first episode of the first season of the TV series. I enjoyed it, but didn't want to watch more until I had read all the books first. I don't want the TV visual super-imposing itself upon my imagination ... not without seeing everything my way first.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by Timboli

A lot of people are upset with George Martin, and I cannot deny I was one of them too.

Eventually though, I made excuses for him. As clever as he is, he did some dumb stuff, and paid a heavy price ... if not financially ... the rich bugger.

He tried to be too clever, took on too much, and paid the price. He had competing obligations, and frankly put himself under too much pressure. He was clearly an idiot to do so, but I forgive him.

I might feel differently if he never produces more books to complete the series. Especially if he refuses to go the Robert Jordan route, like he has said he would never allow. We have bought into his universe, we have made him rich, and in a way he owes us completion ... if he is capable of it. He may no longer be capable, and that is life.

I intend to re-read his series at some point, and I don't want that over-shadowed by a grudge. What he has written so far, has given me great joy.

Just for the record, I have only ever watched the first episode of the first season of the TV series. I enjoyed it, but didn't want to watch more until I had read all the books first. I don't want the TV visual super-imposing itself upon my imagination ... not without seeing everything my way first.

Oh, I'm not upset with him, or hold a grudge. Life is life. I've just accepted that he's probably never going to finish ASOIAF, and am no longer emotionally invested in the series. And as I said, the TV series is an adequate substitute for me. I had my doubts about Martin even in 2011, so I saw no point in not watching it.

[Timboli]

Well as always, each to their own.

I am invested in so many authors, and regularly have huge breaks anyway, that are mostly my fault ... or the fault of life.

I like George's writing, so I can wait if I have to, and I should still be able to enjoy the belated books if they ever come out.

I usually try to hold out and not start reading a series until I have all parts, but often easier said than done. I did that with Terry Goodkind, got all his books without reading more than a few paragraphs, just took it on faith I had good judgment. I wasn't let down.

I've sometimes thought a series was either finished or close. Made that mistake with both Robert Jordan (6 books in) and George Martin. With George though, I kind of felt under pressure, as many I knew were watching the TV series, and I was keen to hop on board .... but only after reading all the novels ... now on hold indefinitely, awaiting the final books.

P.S. Whether I wish it or not, I now also feel some animosity toward the TV series. Time they say, heals all wounds. Ha ha ha ha.

[Sirtel]

I used to be VERY emotional about several of my favorite series when I was young (20-25 years ago, or so ). But not anymore. There are too many good books and too many new and interesting authors to try. Therefore it's sort of pointless for me now to stay entangled in only a handful of series/authors and to cry over them when they don't deliver. I just move on.

Also I've often been disappointed with a series because later books were nowhere near as good as the first two or three. Another reason not to invest too heavily in any one author or series. Now I cast my net as widely as possible and read new authors all the time.

[Wearever]

Originally Posted by Timboli

An interesting approach, if not one that fully appeals to me, though I guess I have done something slightly similar, still kind of do it.

Several years ago, I created an order list (Reading Order.xls) for the books I have left to read, which of course just kept growing faster than I could read, so I really didn't add too many to the list, but came up with a kind of formula or arrangement/structure.

Basically, I elected to vary the genres I read on a regular basis. Maybe add some new ones in, but nothing forced. I also wanted to read all the books by the many authors I follow, in the order they wrote them, but also sometimes stepping out of that order to read a completed trilogy or series first.

That meant in several cases, re-reading books I had read out of order.

My reading order list encompassed authors like Agatha Christie, Michael Moorcock, Jules Verne, Alexandre Dumas, H.G. Wells, Robert E. Howard, Edgar Rice Burroughs, Rafael Sabatini, Mary Johnston, Leslie Charteris, Capt. W.E. Johns, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, etc and many others, including newer authors.

So I listed one book by each, and read all those first, then list their next book, and read them. Now and then I would slot something else in at a whim, including biographies and new authors.

I have so many authors and books, that it meant I was reading about three Agatha Christie books a year, and similar for the others. I say similar, because I also looked at the number written by an author, and if a lot like Agatha Christie (around 100 books), I would slot an extra one of two in more regularly.

It was a reasonable reading regime I set up, but sometimes it would slow down or get bogged down on something I truly wasn't in the mood at the time to read. For a while I would force myself to continue, but realized no great joy in doing so. I did worry such a book would get put aside and eventually forgotten, lose continuity and such, so I was initially quite firm with myself. That meant reading stopped except for that book.

Realism exerted itself eventually. I read to enjoy, as well as learn and grow in knowledge. I only have so many unknown number of years on this mortal coil, and my book collection has far out-grown what I can possibly read, even if I live to 100 and are still capable of reading up to then.

So I have to accept, that I cannot read all, and that really I should be reading the ones I am more sure about enjoying, interspersing others to ensure variety, and not get burnt out on a genre or author. I have known many as well as myself, that have gotten burnt out on Fantasy for instance. There was a point, where that was all I ever read. Luckily, I later developed a love of Mystery books and Historical Romance. I should read more SciFi, which oddly I keep putting off, but have always enjoyed immensely at times.

Anyway, I am less regimental about what I read now. I still try to follow my basic order, but I vary it more often at a whim. It is the backbone though. I currently have about six Agatha Christie books left to read. Mostly finished some other authors too. Some like Wilbur Smith books I have skipped at various times, allowing myself to cater for my mood. They are still on the list and I still fully intend to get to them, but I want to enjoy others more fully first.

I also read slower than I used to, somewhat deliberately so. I used to really push the pace, sticking to my agenda. Now I read to savor more, absorb more, enjoy more. No doubt a very personal thing, applicable to me.

I also have favorite authors I follow from start to finnish as well. like Paul Doiron, Charles Todd, Michael J.Sullivan his new series ( Legends of the first Empire ) was a series I found in my fantasy challenge last year. Also Robert Jordan. I only read the first book in my challenge because if I start to read the rest of the series then it would make me less likely to find new first books for that year. That I guess is my objective for the challenge. Also the challenge is for genres I don't normally read, so exploring new reading opportunities. I do admit it seemed easier for me last year. This year I'm doing sci fi and it seems a little slower. I'm also reading my favorite authors and series in order along with the challenge. So about one challenge book per month.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

I used to be VERY emotional about several of my favorite series when I was young (20-25 years ago, or so ). But not anymore. There are too many good books and too many new and interesting authors to try. Therefore it's sort of pointless for me now to stay entangled in only a handful of series/authors and to cry over them when they don't deliver. I just move on.

Also I've often been disappointed with a series because later books were nowhere near as good as the first two or three. Another reason not to invest too heavily in any one author or series. Now I cast my net as widely as possible and read new authors all the time.

I have noticed a number of series where the quality of the books went downhill. Some authors, like Piers Anthony, use to ride a series until it stopped selling. I think that other authors get caught up expanding a series and can't figure out how to end it. I call this Robert Jordan syndrome, though Weber's Honor Harrington and Safehold series seems to fit the bill as well. I think that Weber has five different series running right now, though with the exception of the two mentioned, he seems to be pretty good about bringing the various series to a satisfactory conclusion.

[patrickt]

Most of my books are like most movies. When it's done, I get up and walk out. A few fiction books that have special meaning for me are worth savoring but most aren't. Books that are non-fiction are a different matter. I will go back and read a non-fiction book to learn more. I very rarely re-read a work of fiction.

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

I used to be VERY emotional about several of my favorite series when I was young (20-25 years ago, or so ). But not anymore. There are too many good books and too many new and interesting authors to try. Therefore it's sort of pointless for me now to stay entangled in only a handful of series/authors and to cry over them when they don't deliver. I just move on.

Well I would have to say I am a bit of both.
I follow a huge number of authors and have many more in my collection that are one offs (even if they wrote more).
So I have plenty of variety and new.
I also temper things with patience, and unless something jars I try not to be too judgmental.
Clearly we all have different likes and dislikes.

Many are unbelievably angry at George Martin.

Many hated or seriously disliked the last few books in The Wheel Of Time series, written by Robert Jordan ... and not always for the same reasons.
I loved all the books, the different threads and the complexity. I didn't like the dream sequences so much in the earlier books, but I tolerated them, because I loved the rest so much.

Sure I don't always like the decisions an author (or editor or publisher) make, but I try to read with positivity, especially once I become invested.

I have my limits though. I stopped reading the Diana Gabaldon 'Outlander' series after the 4th or 5th book, because she pissed me off one time too many ... felt like I was reading Mills & Boons, where drama was everything and she could be untrue to the characters as a result. I don't like having my intelligence insulted. Maybe the editor was to blame. In any case I've never read Diana Gabaldon again and won't.

Also I've often been disappointed with a series because later books were nowhere near as good as the first two or three. Another reason not to invest too heavily in any one author or series. Now I cast my net as widely as possible and read new authors all the time.

I can't see the point of even starting a series, if you are not prepared to invest in it. Once I am invested, then I stay that way, unless they do something real bad. I enjoy my reading on many levels, certainly once I have invested. Sequels for me, don't have to be as great as the original, just so long as they do a good job of continuing the story and characters and giving me more of what I enjoy. Being as good or even better, is kind of a bonus.

I quite accept though, it is a personal thing.

Perhaps a summary for my approach, is I enjoy on either an emotional level or an intellectual one or both. So long as one of those at least, is well enough engaged, I am happy enough to continue.

Books and stories, are like people to me ... none of whom are perfect.

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by Wearever

..... That I guess is my objective for the challenge. Also the challenge is for genres I don't normally read, so exploring new reading opportunities. ....

Clearly the world is full of many different people with many different objectives, desires or needs when it comes to reading. No-one can say what is wrong or right.

We are all on a journey, and things often change. All pretty obvious I guess.

I read for entertainment and stimulation. I like to learn something or be thrilled or have a laugh or be surprised in some nice way. I like to be made to feel good or enriched by an experience. Nice to share things too, even if it is only with the author or one of their characters.

Books can be such wonderful things. And it can be quite surprising at times, what you can inadvertently learn or pick up. They can give contentment or make you feel less alone. In fact, they can be quite healing at times.

My drugs of choice will always be reading and music.

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

I have noticed a number of series where the quality of the books went downhill. Some authors, like Piers Anthony, use to ride a series until it stopped selling. I think that other authors get caught up expanding a series and can't figure out how to end it. I call this Robert Jordan syndrome ...

Clearly you and I are very different readers.

I have read a lot of Piers Anthony, and I never saw him like that. Perhaps it might seem that way if you did not pay attention to him long enough.

I could not get enough of Robert Jordan, and don't see any syndrome at all. I think that is about expectations more than the reality of what he was writing, which was marvelously complex to me, and so needed to be fleshed out a lot. He did know how to end it, and it was written before he died. What he struggled with, was shortening what he wanted to say, and I believe that was only so, because he was trying to please as many as he could. He had a wide variety of fans, with different agendas. He was trying to be true to the overall story, while not alienating some of his fans ... a hard task by any measure.

One man's rubbish is another man's treasure.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by Timboli

I can't see the point of even starting a series, if you are not prepared to invest in it. Once I am invested, then I stay that way, unless they do something real bad. I enjoy my reading on many levels, certainly once I have invested. Sequels for me, don't have to be as great as the original, just so long as they do a good job of continuing the story and characters and giving me more of what I enjoy. Being as good or even better, is kind of a bonus.

I quite accept though, it is a personal thing.

Perhaps a summary for my approach, is I enjoy on either an emotional level or an intellectual one or both. So long as one of those at least, is well enough engaged, I am happy enough to continue.

Books and stories, are like people to me ... none of whom are perfect.

Apparently I'm more difficult to please than you. Almost certainly I'm more easily bored. I admit that I have not enjoyed an awful lot of books that I've read. And no, it's not something I can predict with reasonable accuracy before reading. More often than not the book just doesn't engage me enough on any level to stay interested in it. The same with many series (not all, though).

Generally I try to finish every book I read, unless it's egregiously bad or boring (imho, of course). I'm quite willing to drop a series, though, if I can't stay interested. And there are many reasons why I can't. Sometimes the first few books have been better edited, have tighter plots, more interesting worldbuilding or character-building. Then in later books the quality drops, too many sidetracking or elaborating on insignificant minor details, the intensity and emotion which were present in the first books are lost. Characters become boring or unrecognizable from the persons they were at the beginning. And yes, I'll start to yawn.

For example there was one series that started out emotionally and psychologically intense, the emphasis was on the characters and their interactions. I enjoyed it immensely. Don't know what happened to the author, but after the third book the series transformed suddenly into a pretty boring military action-flick, like hundreds of others of the same ilk. All the originality and intensity that drew me to the series was just gone. Needless to say, I was terribly disappointed. I still bought the later books and someday I might even attempt to read them. But I don't expect much.

Well, naturally everyone's hopes and expectations are different, and that's all to the good, because otherwise we would all read the same handful of authors.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by Timboli

Clearly you and I are very different readers.

I have read a lot of Piers Anthony, and I never saw him like that. Perhaps it might seem that way if you did not pay attention to him long enough.

I could not get enough of Robert Jordan, and don't see any syndrome at all. I think that is about expectations more than the reality of what he was writing, which was marvelously complex to me, and so needed to be fleshed out a lot. He did know how to end it, and it was written before he died. What he struggled with, was shortening what he wanted to say, and I believe that was only so, because he was trying to please as many as he could. He had a wide variety of fans, with different agendas. He was trying to be true to the overall story, while not alienating some of his fans ... a hard task by any measure.

One man's rubbish is another man's treasure.

Oh I've read a lot of Piers Anthony over the years. His Xanth series is 40+ books. Back in the late 70's and early 80's he was churning out 5+ books a year.

I'm glad you don't see any syndrome in the Wheel of Time saga.

[Timboli]

Well we are all different, and how boring if we were all the same, so each to their own.

So long as we can achieve pleasure and joy, and not at someone else's expense, all is good.

Piers Anthony has really only slowed down in the last decade. It seems age has finally caught up with him. I still have something like half of the Xanth books left to read.

Alas it seems I like too much, and just aren't discriminating enough to reduce my reading list enough to catch up during my lifetime. The list grows ever longer.

EDIT
I'd have to say I am far more discriminating in what I now choose to buy though, book wise. Many stories are just more of the same, especially Fantasy. And I already have a huge number to read of most genres. The drive to buy new authors is very much diminished, though I will still snap up freebies that sound good enough ... whether i ever read them or not, is another thing. Anyway, as much of what I have, is by authors I have yet to read, I guess you can say, I still have plenty of new authors ... new to me.

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Apparently I'm more difficult to please than you. Almost certainly I'm more easily bored. I admit that I have not enjoyed an awful lot of books that I've read. And no, it's not something I can predict with reasonable accuracy before reading. More often than not the book just doesn't engage me enough on any level to stay interested in it. The same with many series (not all, though).

Generally I try to finish every book I read, unless it's egregiously bad or boring (imho, of course).

I used to suffer a lot from boredom as a kid, young adult. But now I have far too many interests, and many take me away from reading. I do try to pace things, and ensure I don't read too much of the same thing or genre for long.

It seems I still finish books, even if I get somewhat bored ... and even if it takes me 10 years to do so. Boredom is often a mood thing for me though.

In a very real way, I don't feel I read with the same expectation I used to have. Perhaps that makes me more tolerant with what I read. Nothing much surprises me anymore, and most of my big reading thrills were years ago. In some ways, I feel I read for nostalgia, even though most of what I read is new. I don't expect a bid thrill anymore, so mediocre is good enough, and just the joy of reading is enough, providing nothing jars. So if a book is quite good, it is a nice pleasant surprise ... almost a bonus.

No doubt life's journey has brought me to this place.

Well, naturally everyone's hopes and expectations are different, and that's all to the good, because otherwise we would all read the same handful of authors.

Though looking out there now at all the releases, just at Amazon, I feel quite overwhelmed by what is available. But yes, great we have plenty of variety ... I think ... don't they say less is more ... ha ha ha.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by Timboli

Well we are all different, and how boring if we were all the same, so each to their own.

So long as we can achieve pleasure and joy, and not at someone else's expense, all is good.

Piers Anthony has really only slowed down in the last decade. It seems age has finally caught up with him. I still have something like half of the Xanth books left to read.

Alas it seems I like too much, and just aren't discriminating enough to reduce my reading list enough to catch up during my lifetime. The list grows ever longer.

EDIT
I'd have to say I am far more discriminating in what I now choose to buy though, book wise. Many stories are just more of the same, especially Fantasy. And I already have a huge number to read of most genres. The drive to buy new authors is very much diminished, though I will still snap up freebies that sound good enough ... whether i ever read them or not, is another thing. Anyway, as much of what I have, is by authors I have yet to read, I guess you can say, I still have plenty of new authors ... new to me.

Hum, the sentence about Wheel of Time may have come across differently than I meant it. I really do mean that I'm glad you find all the Wheel of Time books good and don't see an fall off. We are all here sharing a love that we have, i.e. reading.