Do some publishers have any idea?

[lumpynose]

Originally Posted by barryem

If this doesn't settle this issue I plan to consult a priest, a rabbi and various others from on high. If even that doesn't settle it I may give up.

Tea leaves and a Ouija board are my final arbiters.

[lumpynose]

Originally Posted by barryem

I just got into a chat with Amazon's Kindle support and told him I've occasionally lent a Kindle to a friend with a book he wants to read on it, as well as any other books which might already be on that Kindle. I explained that someone said that it was wrong to do that and I wanted to find out if Amazon has any issues with it.

This seems analogous to the early days of MP3s when people were ripping their CDs and "sharing" the MP3s with their friends and everyone else. They assumed, incorrectly, that since they owned the cd that they owned the music on it and could share it. But they only own the physical cd, which they can share.

And the example of Tor going DRM free could perhaps be strengthened by pointing to Apple's example of removing DRM from the iTunes store. As I remember it the music labels fought Steve Jobs on that but he eventually won.

[Timboli]

I have always thought that those imposing DRM on us, have looked at their own true nature & shortcomings, and then with fear attributed that to everyone else.

I believe that the majority, given half a chance, will gravitate toward doing the right thing.

The world would be a much better place, with more Respect, Trust, Caring and Sharing.

But hey, that's just my view ... and who am I to spoil the negativity of others.

[gmw]

Originally Posted by Timboli

[...] The world would be a much better place, with more Respect, Trust, Caring and Sharing. [...]

This I agree with.

Originally Posted by Timboli

[...] I believe that the majority, given half a chance, will gravitate toward doing the right thing. [...]

I'm not sure the evidence exists to support this - and it has been studied. Context is important. Whether people will choose to defect (cheat) or not is quite variable.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by lumpynose

And the example of Tor going DRM free could perhaps be strengthened by pointing to Apple's example of removing DRM from the iTunes store. As I remember it the music labels fought Steve Jobs on that but he eventually won.

You remember incorrectly. Apple had to give in and add DRM to music before the labels would agree to let Apple sell it.

It was only when the labels got worried by the dominance of Apple in the electronic retail music market that Amazon managed to persuade the labels to allow Amazon to sell DRM-free music in competition with Apple. After which, Apple got to sell DRM-free music as well.

[darryl]

Originally Posted by gmw

I'm not sure the evidence exists to support this - and it has been studied. Context is important. Whether people will choose to defect (cheat) or not is quite variable.

So far as e-books go one can infer from the continued existence of a viable market that at least sufficient number of people buy their e-books rather than download pirate versions to keep the market viable. Does this mean that a majority do so? I suspect so, but have not come across definitive evidence. I also wonder if there is greater piracy of Big 5 titles as opposed to Indies.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by darryl

I also wonder if there is greater piracy of Big 5 titles as opposed to Indies.

Of course there is, has to be. Sheer numbers game. Demand and supply. The biggest money for the Big 5 is the few top sellers they have. Not really a lot per year, but there is an aweful many years of backlist top sellers. Many decades worth. And there is enough midlist as well. If it sells enough, it will be popular enough and ripe for piracy.

Also books published in the last millennium have some other reason to be pirated. Those that believe they are entitled a copy of an ebook simply by owning a paper copy. Which, of course, is another misguided poor excuse.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

You remember incorrectly. Apple had to give in and add DRM to music before the labels would agree to let Apple sell it.

It was only when the labels got worried by the dominance of Apple in the electronic retail music market that Amazon managed to persuade the labels to allow Amazon to sell DRM-free music in competition with Apple. After which, Apple got to sell DRM-free music as well.

I think you are both saying the same thing. Jobs wanted DRM-free music and eventually iTunes was able to sell DRM free music. You just added some detail.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

Of course there is, has to be. Sheer numbers game. Demand and supply. The biggest money for the Big 5 is the few top sellers they have. Not really a lot per year, but there is an aweful many years of backlist top sellers. Many decades worth. And there is enough midlist as well. If it sells enough, it will be popular enough and ripe for piracy.

Also books published in the last millennium have some other reason to be pirated. Those that believe they are entitled a copy of an ebook simply by owning a paper copy. Which, of course, is another misguided poor excuse.

I really question how significant the pirate market for ebooks, music and movies is in the west. I have no doubt it is significant world wide, I just question how significant it is in places like the US, Canada, the UK, the EU and such.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

I really question how significant the pirate market for ebooks, music and movies is in the west. I have no doubt it is significant world wide, I just question how significant it is in places like the US, Canada, the UK, the EU and such.

Why does it matter how significant of an impact it has? It exists, and the Big5 are represented more than Indies.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

Of course there is, has to be. Sheer numbers game. Demand and supply. The biggest money for the Big 5 is the few top sellers they have. Not really a lot per year, but there is an aweful many years of backlist top sellers. Many decades worth. And there is enough midlist as well. If it sells enough, it will be popular enough and ripe for piracy.

I'd be willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that the few top sellers the Big 5 rely on for pretty-much ... everything, are what gets pirated the most.

[barryem]

Originally Posted by Timboli

The ridiculous over-reaction to me, one person and his views, by some, is totally out of all proportion.

I respect your right to be a goodist even though I may not respect your choice. I also respect the rights of others to over-react to you. They over-react to me all the time. Even I over-react to me.

Barry

[barryem]

Originally Posted by Timboli

But hey, that's just my view ... and who am I to spoil the negativity of others.

That seems pretty negative to me.

Barry

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

Why does it matter how significant of an impact it has? It exists, and the Big5 are represented more than Indies.

It matters because if the impact is insignificant, then it wouldn't really matter much, except from a rhetorical arguing point.

I would guess that outside the west, most of those indies are unknown. Heck, I would guess outside the ebook community, most of those indies are unknown. The flip side is that authors like JK Rowling, Stephen King and Tom Clancy are known world wide.

Of course, we probably should define terms. When I hear piracy I think people illegally selling things, not simply posting them on some dark web to be downloaded for free. If we are talking the latter, then heck all it takes is one fan to post it. I haven't check in a long while, but at one time, you could find a really odd mix of very famous and very obscure books on the usenet groups.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by barryem

That seems pretty negative to me.

Barry

Evil mean old me! After all, I'm arguing against that famous Constitutional Right, The Inviolate Right to El Cheapo Entertainment At The Expense of the People Who Risk The Money To Create It.

I long ago learned that Thomas Moore should have named his fantastical happy-happy-joy-joy spot "YouDopeia." It would have been more appropriately named then for those that believe in it--or their "I want my s**t free" version of it.

Hitch