Why are eink screens so gray?

[cerement]

As far as the "white" being called "white" when it clearly isn't white, I would think you would have to contact one of the eInk screen companies directly (ie. PVI) - which also sounds like it's gonna be a long frustrating conversation

Originally Posted by snipenekkid

I can say if I had a choice between the eink Sony devices and a PDA with some form of LCD and a transreflective display, I would opt for the PDA type device.

The choice of device (or better, the choice of screen) is currently limited by technology. We had an earlier article describing the current options: Why there isn't a perfect ebook reader.

The Jetbook and some earlier readers used a reflective LCD screen, easily viewable in sunlight, but early versions had the very classic black type on green background that has become a stereotype of LCDs.

We are currently in the "early adoption" phase of eInk screens and, currently, the best are probably the Kindle and the PRS-505 with their dark-gray on light-gray feel that has become so common.

Pixel Qi's screen for the OLPC laptop looks to be the next promising idea. Some cellphones have a similar concept, combining a reflective LCD with a backlit LED screen, backlight on and everything is in color, but bad in sunlight, backlight off and it's a monochrome screen but good in sunlight. Pixel Qi's contribution is drastically reducing power consumption (not to eInk levels, but far better than what we're used to in laptops) and making the reflective monochrome component 4x the resolution of the color component.

[snipenekkid]

Originally Posted by lilac_jive

Which ones did you see with such a white screen (advertised)? I just took a look on Sony's website again just to see, and the screen looks just like my device.

I'm just suprised, you're the only person I know of who's noticed this.

I really think you should try one out, especially if you don't want to read on a PDA anymore. Maybe a Kindle, since you can return it within 30 days?

Sorry I'm not trying to bust on you. I'm just a little confuzzled.

You are far more conversant about these devices than I. I am not going to be drawn into a debate over this issue of marginal advertizing images combined with the implied or categorically stated black and white displays. Your's is exactly the response I was dreading with my questions. It does not enhance the discussion to try and provide you with what you should be well aware of as I have also read several threads with statements indicating this also.

Sorry for being so direct but if it matters I am sure you will admit to yourself such information is out there.

[ShortNCuddlyAm]

Originally Posted by snipenekkid

Thank you for the suggestion but first I will not meet with anyone I know only from the internet, it's simply an unwise behavior.

That's why people meet those they only know from the 'net in cafes or other public places - it's a lot less risky than inviting a complete stranger into your home, going to theirs, or meeting in a sparsely populated area From my own personal experience, I've had more problems with people I've randomly encountered on public transport and with work colleagues and so on than I've had with meeting people I know from the 'net.

If you do decide you want to meet some-one you only know online, take a friend along, or at the very least let one know where and when you are going, and arrange to call them (or them to call you) at a certain time, maybe with instructions for them to get the police out after you if you haven't. And take the usual precautions you'd take when meeting strangers for the first time.

[lilac_jive]

Originally Posted by snipenekkid

You are far more conversant about these devices than I. I am not going to be drawn into a debate over this issue of marginal advertizing images combined with the implied or categorically stated black and white displays. Your's is exactly the response I was dreading with my questions. It does not enhance the discussion to try and provide you with what you should be well aware of as I have also read several threads with statements indicating this also.

Sorry for being so direct but if it matters I am sure you will admit to yourself such information is out there.

I'm not trying to debate, I was serious. I was of course concerned when you said some ebook makers were potentially photoshopping pictures of devices. That would make me pretty peeved. I checked the Sony site to see if they did that, and it looks to me like they didn't. So I was wondering where you saw these pictures.

I'm seriously not trying to give you a hard time. I'll be honest though that I am a little bothered that you are turned off of eink by something that I haven't heard anyone complain about. But obviously it's not my choice to make, all we can do is hopefully give you all of the information you need.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by snipenekkid

Thank you for the suggestion but first I will not meet with anyone I know only from the internet, it's simply an unwise behavior.

If I had that same attitude about meeting people I've met only online, I would not be married to whom I am married. We both fell in love with each other online. We'd never spoken voice or met offline. Kind of hard to meet when she's in the UK and I'm in the USA. But it's almost 4 years and we are quite happy together.

[lilac_jive]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

If I had that same attitude about meeting people I've met only online, I would not be married to whom I am married. We both fell in love with each other online. We'd never spoken voice or met offline. Kind of hard to meet when she's in the UK and I'm in the USA. But it's almost 4 years and we are quite happy together.

Time to cue the "aawwwwwwwws"

I agree, I have met some great friends on the internet, who I have met in person.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by snipenekkid

Thank you for the suggestion but first I will not meet with anyone I know only from the internet, it's simply an unwise behavior.

I've been very happy with every in-person meeting I've had with online friends. And even acquaintances.

Meeting with people online is risky (not always unwise) for (1) children, and (2) people looking for a savior--someone to rescue them from loneliness, poverty, or disaster.

Meetup.com has a huge following of "people who find others who share interests online, and then they meet in person." The key parts for safety are meeting in public, and being able to leave easily if there's any problems.

[snipenekkid]

Originally Posted by lilac_jive

I'm not trying to debate, I was serious. I was of course concerned when you said some ebook makers were potentially photoshopping pictures of devices. That would make me pretty peeved. I checked the Sony site to see if they did that, and it looks to me like they didn't. So I was wondering where you saw these pictures.

I'm seriously not trying to give you a hard time. I'll be honest though that I am a little bothered that you are turned off of eink by something that I haven't heard anyone complain about. But obviously it's not my choice to make, all we can do is hopefully give you all of the information you need.

Gattcha...I will try and find a couple of them later today if I can. I am leaning more toward some shots under very bright lighting which does really improve the whiteness of the displays to my eyes. I able to take the Sony reader I looked at outside the store where there was a big difference. Still some of the shots over on the sony store do show a fairly white display. I have attached on of those shots. Still it is not perfectly white but of the display was that way all the time I would be very happy.

Honestly I never looked at the Sony site before as Sony was not a reader I am interested in buying. Too many bad experiences with Sony dropping devices without notice in the past. I have Clie NX80v which works perfectly but several years ago Sony just discontinued all of their Plam OS based devices save the mylo.

From looking at the Sony site their shots overall do represent what I saw in the store.

[lilac_jive]

Originally Posted by snipenekkid

Gattcha...I will try and find a couple of them later today if I can. I am leaning more toward some shots under very bright lighting which does really improve the whiteness of the displays to my eyes. I able to take the Sony reader I looked at outside the store where there was a big difference. Still some of the shots over on the sony store do show a fairly white display. I have attached on of those shots. Still it is not perfectly white but of the display was that way all the time I would be very happy.

Honestly I never looked at the Sony site before as Sony was not a reader I am interested in buying. Too many bad experiences with Sony dropping devices without notice in the past. I have Clie NX80v which works perfectly but several years ago Sony just discontinued all of their Plam OS based devices save the mylo.

From looking at the Sony site their shots overall do represent what I saw in the store.

In good lighting, it can look that white. But ironically, on that video, I remember they didn't show the screen reflash when they switched screens. That worries me a lot. If people watched that video and bought one, I think they'd be disappointed.

Didn't Sony drop a new Palm in CES? Or am I thinking of something else?

Anyway, if you're worried about Sony sticking with their device, have you considered the Kindle? Even if they stop making that device, the fact that they've opened Kindle books to the iPod makes me think they will stick with ebooks for a long time to come.

[cerement]

After taking the following shot (and while I admit that this is in now way a professional photo), I'm gonna have to agree with snipenekkid, the background doesn't even qualify as a "light-gray" ... certainly don't see how it can be called "white" ...

[lilac_jive]

Originally Posted by cerement

After taking the following shot (and while I admit that this is in now way a professional photo), I'm gonna have to agree with snipenekkid, the background doesn't even qualify as a "light-gray" ... certainly don't see how it can be called "white" ...

Oh it's definitely not white. No one will argue with that It's a lot more noticeable on the Kindle, since the device is white.

[Renaldo]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

If I had that same attitude about meeting people I've met only online, I would not be married to whom I am married.

Just because she hasn't killed and eaten you yet, doesn't mean she's not going to.

[snipenekkid]

Originally Posted by cerement

After taking the following shot (and while I admit that this is in now way a professional photo), I'm gonna have to agree with snipenekkid, the background doesn't even qualify as a "light-gray" ... certainly don't see how it can be called "white" ...

Thank you for taking the time to illustrate what I was trying to describe. I am an amatur 'tog myself and looking at your EXIF nice to see you shoot the right brand.

lilac_jive, if you look closely at cerement's photo you will see the display in relation to not only the color balancing chart but also a book with actual white pages. The eink even on the Kindle is not close to any shade of white. My experience with gray scale displays comes from the old CRT days and gray scale always included white as part of the scale. Even the original macs has white as part of the scale. in face the displays were caller paper white.

Combine that understanding with the use of the word white when describing the technology you should be able to see why one is let down when viewing the display in real life. Light gray I certainly could live with. But the current color is several shades darker than light gray.

[snipenekkid]

Originally Posted by Renaldo

Just because she hasn't killed and eaten you yet, doesn't mean she's not going to.

Queue the X-Files theme or even Torchwood.

[lilac_jive]

Originally Posted by snipenekkid

Thank you for taking the time to illustrate what I was trying to describe. I am an amatur 'tog myself and looking at your EXIF nice to see you shoot the right brand.

lilac_jive, if you look closely at cerement's photo you will see the display in relation to not only the color balancing chart but also a book with actual white pages. The eink even on the Kindle is not close to any shade of white. My experience with gray scale displays comes from the old CRT days and gray scale always included white as part of the scale. Even the original macs has white as part of the scale.

Combine that understanding with the use of the word white when describing the technology you should be able to see why one is let down when viewing the display in real life. Light gray I certainly could live with. But the current color is several shades darker than light gray.

I think it doesn't bother me since I read mostly mass market paperbacks, which have a similar gray tint (albeit with some creamy color mixed in). Like I said before, I recently read a hardcover with white pages and my eyes hurt

I would certainly never call the screen white, it's not at all.

Heh, I still think you should give it a shot though