What would bring Nook back from the dead?

ZodWallop · 03-20-2019, 03:50 PM

Not sure if this is news or general discussion.

GoodEreader had an article about the Nook division getting some new blood: Will Barnes and Noble get serious about the Nook?

Quote:

The shuffle of Barnes & Noble’s technology leaders occurred when the Chief Digital Officer Fred Argir announced his retirement and William Wood was promoted to the CDO role internally. The bookseller then hired Carlo Pochintesta as Chief Information Officer last week.

More at the source.

Anyway, I was wondering: if they used us as a focus group, what would you recommend to revive Nook?

Here's what I've got:

I've always liked Nook's hardware. But they really need to improve the software experience. It's mediocre to terrible.
Stop playing games with on device storage. Leave all of it available to users.
Make it easier for users to download their books.

I know these are things that only appeal to die-hard e-book readers. But that seems to be a good audience to attract. Also, aside from software improvements that would appeal to all potential users, the rest wouldn't cost much.

I bought my first Nook (the Simple Touch) because B&N touted it's openness. You could buy ePubs from anywhere. They used 'social DRM'. They included an SD card slot so you'd have more storage, not less.

barryem · 03-20-2019, 04:12 PM

They've already made all the storage available on the Glowlight 3 with the latest update.

I don't agree that the Nook software isn't good. It's not packed with features but it has the features I care about. It also has a better screen than my Kindle.

I don't buy B&N books and I won't till they've shown themselves to be reliable. So to me the reason they don't compete with Amazon is that they give poor service and they aren't reliable. I use my Nook for sideloading and no matter what they improve I'll continue to do that for the foreseeable future. To change my mind they'll have to become as good as Amazon in many ways and stay that way for a long time. I don't expect that to happen although I'd be pleased if it did. Without competition Amazon will eventually get worse, too.

Barry

ZodWallop · 03-20-2019, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barryem

They've already made all the storage available on the Glowlight 3 with the latest update.

I'm pretty sure they switched the two partitions. Originally, out of 8GBs, 1.5GB was available for sideloading. Now 5.5 is available.

But what I meant in the first place is do what the Glowlight Plus (and all Kindles and Kobos do) and don't partition the storage in the first place.

Quote:

I don't agree that the Nook software isn't good. It's not packed with features but it has the features I care about.

Greyed out dictionary and table of contents. Replacing the 'current read' button in the top left with the mostly useless 'accounts' button. Plus it is slow and unstable.

Quote:

I don't buy B&N books and I won't till they've shown themselves to be reliable. So to me the reason they don't compete with Amazon is that they give poor service and they aren't reliable. I use my Nook for sideloading and no matter what they improve I'll continue to do that for the foreseeable future.

I was kind of getting at that when I was talking about how previously, Nook had touted its openness. Concerns about B&N's future stability wouldn't be a turn-off if you knew that you'd still be able to access your device and were able to download books.

John F · 03-20-2019, 05:29 PM

Assuming the hardware is comparable to a Clara HD, I would want more formatting options. A lot More choices for font size, margins, line spacing, .... Instead of just sliders, let the user enter point size, ....

fjtorres · 03-20-2019, 10:23 PM

I don't think it's the hardware or the software.
It's their credibility with customers. And the lack of same.

The missteps of their past coming back to haunt them: by making their readers adobe compatible they allowed their customer base to switch to Kobo once the possibility of shutdown started scaring them off. And once the loss of PC downloads started to bite. Constant quarterly reports of declining ebook sales don't help. Neither do the jacked up BPH prices, the steady defections of Indie publishers, and the whole "ebooks fad" and "screen fatigue" narratives from the publishing establishment.

B&N has very few buttons to push to bring back customers because they can't do sales, they can't do rebates, they have essentially zero exclusives, and their catalog size is at least 25% smaller than Kindle.

At this point all they can hope for is to limit further defections and try to grow with the market but it's no longer 2011 and the booming growth phase of the ebook sector is over. Market growth will be slow and steady because existing ebook shoppers are already committed to one platform or another, whether it be Kobo, Apple, Google, or Kindle. Any new customers will come from the much smaller pool of newcomers getting started with ebooks. And those newcomers will feel a strong draw to Kindle and/or Kindle unlimited. That will be a non-trivial inducement.

Making the hardware better, making the software better, better customer service; all that only matters to those already inclined to stick with Nook. Somebody starting fresh will find the same benefits at Kobo or with a generic adobe reader. Or, more likely, with Kindle,along with "safety in numbers"...

It is way too late for anything but treading water.
And even that will be a challenge. Death spirals are almost impossible to reverse.

Seriously: what argument can get an educated consumer to say "I prefer Nook to Kobo or Apple or even Google?"

haertig · 03-20-2019, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjtorres

I don't think it's the hardware or the software.
It's their credibility with customers. And the lack of same.

Bingo! They could come out with awesome hardware. They could come out with awesome software. They could massively cut the prices of their books. But I still wouldn't buy from them. B&N corporate policy had them throwing their customers under the bus. Once you've been run over by a bus, you have a long memory of that, and a healthy suspicion of all buses well into the future. IMHO, B&N cannot recover, period. You reap what you sow.

darryl · 03-20-2019, 11:03 PM

I literally can't think of anything that would work. They need a miracle, which is made more unlikely by the senior management who seem to be planning for failure.

GeoffR · 03-21-2019, 12:44 AM

Allow global access to their ebook store. Why limit their pool of potential customers to the 5% of the world's population that lives in the USA?

ZodWallop · 03-21-2019, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haertig

They could come out with awesome hardware. They could come out with awesome software. They could massively cut the prices of their books. But I still wouldn't buy from them.

At that point, you'd be cutting off your nose to spite your face. If B&N were regularly able to sell ebooks 'massively' cheaper than Amazon, I'd still be buying ebooks from them. So long as I'm able to import and de-DRM their books (which so far I can with the Win10 Nook app), not buying books where they're cheapest would seem foolish.

Of course, agency pricing says this will never happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by darryl

They need a miracle, which is made more unlikely by the senior management who seem to be planning for failure.

And that right there is the truth of things. But it would be nice to see the Nook division turn around.

fjtorres · 03-21-2019, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Of course, agency pricing says this will never happen.

Ding, ding, ding!!!

And remember who not only welcomed Agency with open arms but also helped pressure (then-independent) Random House to go Agency? Not Mr Riggios boys, surely?!!

Sins of the past.

fjtorres · 03-21-2019, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoffR

Allow global access to their ebook store. Why limit their pool of potential customers to the 5% of the world's population that lives in the USA?

Why even care at this point?
Kobo has a bigger catalog and better readers.
And they haven't burned bridges with small presses and Indie publishers so they stand a (small) chance of blunting KU exclusivity.

Kobo won't even have to buy the Nook customer list since the customers are slowly migrating on their own.

maximus83 · 03-21-2019, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

So long as I'm able to import and de-DRM their books (which so far I can with the Win10 Nook app), not buying books where they're cheapest would seem foolish.

I'd be careful of that though. You already know your 'success' is based on a limited sample and that the vast majority of others are experiencing decryption failures. I saw the same pattern at the GH affiliated with Alf.

ZodWallop · 03-21-2019, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maximus83

I'd be careful of that though. You already know your 'success' is based on a limited sample and that the vast majority of others are experiencing decryption failures. I saw the same pattern at the GH affiliated with Alf.

Currently I'm not buying my books at B&N regardless. But the limited times I have, I've succeeded. The only issue I've had was with a graphic novel where the ePub was structured slightly different. In that case, I was able to open the ePub with 7zip and move the misplaced file. The ePub then decrypted successfully.

maximus83 · 03-21-2019, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Currently I'm not buying my books at B&N regardless. But the limited times I have, I've succeeded. The only issue I've had was with a graphic novel where the ePub was structured slightly different. In that case, I was able to open the ePub with 7zip and move the misplaced file. The ePub then decrypted successfully.

I was surprised even at the GH to find out how many others are having issues, and really, nobody seems to know what is going on and if there's a solution on the horizon. Same old BN. They might be going down, but they're going to heroically try to drag all their customers down with them.....

pwalker8 · 03-21-2019, 11:48 AM

They would have to give me a reason to buy from them. I don't particularly care about getting the cheapest price. I do care about getting books that I want, and I do care about finding books that I want, plus I care about being able to remove the DRM and read them on the device that I like to read on. As far as I can tell, the B&N ebook store is the worst of the big four (Kindle, Books, Kobo and B&N) ebook stores. They would need to change the paradigm of ebook stores in a positive way. I really don't see that happening.

03-20-2019, 10:23 PM	#5
fjtorres Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,732 Karma: 128354696 Join Date: May 2009 Location: 26 kly from Sgr A* Device: T100TA,PW2,PRS-T1,KT,FireHD 8.9,K2, PB360,BeBook One,Axim51v,TC1000	I don't think it's the hardware or the software. It's their credibility with customers. And the lack of same. The missteps of their past coming back to haunt them: by making their readers adobe compatible they allowed their customer base to switch to Kobo once the possibility of shutdown started scaring them off. And once the loss of PC downloads started to bite. Constant quarterly reports of declining ebook sales don't help. Neither do the jacked up BPH prices, the steady defections of Indie publishers, and the whole "ebooks fad" and "screen fatigue" narratives from the publishing establishment. B&N has very few buttons to push to bring back customers because they can't do sales, they can't do rebates, they have essentially zero exclusives, and their catalog size is at least 25% smaller than Kindle. At this point all they can hope for is to limit further defections and try to grow with the market but it's no longer 2011 and the booming growth phase of the ebook sector is over. Market growth will be slow and steady because existing ebook shoppers are already committed to one platform or another, whether it be Kobo, Apple, Google, or Kindle. Any new customers will come from the much smaller pool of newcomers getting started with ebooks. And those newcomers will feel a strong draw to Kindle and/or Kindle unlimited. That will be a non-trivial inducement. Making the hardware better, making the software better, better customer service; all that only matters to those already inclined to stick with Nook. Somebody starting fresh will find the same benefits at Kobo or with a generic adobe reader. Or, more likely, with Kindle,along with "safety in numbers"... It is way too late for anything but treading water. And even that will be a challenge. Death spirals are almost impossible to reverse. Seriously: what argument can get an educated consumer to say "I prefer Nook to Kobo or Apple or even Google?" Last edited by fjtorres; 03-20-2019 at 10:30 PM.

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03-20-2019, 04:12 PM	#2
barryem Wizard Posts: 2,459 Karma: 68781975 Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Arkansas Device: Paperwhite 4	They've already made all the storage available on the Glowlight 3 with the latest update. I don't agree that the Nook software isn't good. It's not packed with features but it has the features I care about. It also has a better screen than my Kindle. I don't buy B&N books and I won't till they've shown themselves to be reliable. So to me the reason they don't compete with Amazon is that they give poor service and they aren't reliable. I use my Nook for sideloading and no matter what they improve I'll continue to do that for the foreseeable future. To change my mind they'll have to become as good as Amazon in many ways and stay that way for a long time. I don't expect that to happen although I'd be pleased if it did. Without competition Amazon will eventually get worse, too. Barry

03-20-2019, 05:29 PM	#4
John F Grand Sorcerer Posts: 7,848 Karma: 70000001 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: Kobo Clara 2E	Assuming the hardware is comparable to a Clara HD, I would want more formatting options. A lot More choices for font size, margins, line spacing, .... Instead of just sliders, let the user enter point size, ....

03-20-2019, 11:03 PM	#7
darryl Wizard Posts: 3,108 Karma: 60231510 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Australia Device: Kobo Aura H2O, Kindle Oasis, Huwei Ascend Mate 7	I literally can't think of anything that would work. They need a miracle, which is made more unlikely by the senior management who seem to be planning for failure.

03-21-2019, 12:44 AM	#8
GeoffR Wizard Posts: 3,821 Karma: 19162882 Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Te Riu-a-Māui Device: Kobo Glo	Allow global access to their ebook store. Why limit their pool of potential customers to the 5% of the world's population that lives in the USA?

03-21-2019, 11:48 AM	#15
pwalker8 Grand Sorcerer Posts: 7,196 Karma: 70314280 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Atlanta, GA Device: iPad Pro, iPad mini, Kobo Aura, Amazon paperwhite, Sony PRS-T2	They would have to give me a reason to buy from them. I don't particularly care about getting the cheapest price. I do care about getting books that I want, and I do care about finding books that I want, plus I care about being able to remove the DRM and read them on the device that I like to read on. As far as I can tell, the B&N ebook store is the worst of the big four (Kindle, Books, Kobo and B&N) ebook stores. They would need to change the paradigm of ebook stores in a positive way. I really don't see that happening.