Tolkien - Page 2

DuckieTigger · 03-06-2019, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwalker8

I don't get the impression that it's a documentary per se.

What would you call it? Doesn't dokudrama(or documentary drama) fit the bill? I personally would consider both dramatized and narrated documentary as being a documentary. And as such a dokudrama is one kind of documentary. I don't get the impression that it is just inspired by the young Tolkien, but portrays and reenacts it as accurately as possible.

DiapDealer · 03-06-2019, 01:37 PM

I always assume "docudrama" means that artistic license is going to be taken in the name of good story-telling. That in and of itself doesn't lessen my opinion of it--I enjoy a good story based on real events. It does, however, take it out of the realm of "Documentary" for me and into the realm of fiction (personally). Much like historical fiction is still fiction and not really History. Not inherently a lesser endeavor ... just a different one.

pwalker8 · 03-06-2019, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I always assume "docudrama" means that artistic license is going to be taken in the name of good story-telling. That in and of itself doesn't lessen my opinion of it--I enjoy a good story based on real events. It does, however, take it out of the realm of "Documentary" for me and into the realm of fiction (personally). Much like historical fiction is still fiction and not really History. Not inherently a lesser endeavor ... just a different one.

That pretty much is my impression of what it's going to be. How close it is going to stick with the facts is another question. It could be like Shadowlands or it could be like Dreamchild.

DuckieTigger · 03-06-2019, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I always assume "docudrama" means that artistic license is going to be taken in the name of good story-telling. That in and of itself doesn't lessen my opinion of it--I enjoy a good story based on real events. It does, however, take it out of the realm of "Documentary" for me and into the realm of fiction (personally). Much like historical fiction is still fiction and not really History. Not inherently a lesser endeavor ... just a different one.

Did you read a bit into the article I linked on Wikipedia? (Bold mine)

Quote:

A docudrama, in which historical fidelity is the keynote, is generally distinguished from a film merely "based on true events", a term which implies a greater degree of dramatic license; and from the concept of "historical drama", a broader category which may also encompass largely fictionalized action taking place in historical settings or against the backdrop of historical events.

They say at the top not to confuse docudrama with docufiction which is what your version of docudrama is. Wikipedia: docufiction

DiapDealer · 03-07-2019, 09:16 AM

Sorry. I realize full well what the technical definitions are supposed to be in theory. It hasn't stopped them from being terribly abused in practice. No one really uses "docufiction" in the real world. It all--good, bad, meh--gets dumped into the docudrama label. I stand by my (admittedly personal) statement. If Docudrama were strictly factual, there'd be no reason to distinguish it from Documentary.

HarryT · 03-08-2019, 03:23 AM

I consider the difference between a "documentary" and a "docudrama" to be that a documentary (which the BBC makes huge numbers of) has a narrator or a presenter telling the viewer about a subject, whereas a docudrama shows a dramatised recreation of those events. My personal preference is strongly for the former!

pwalker8 · 03-08-2019, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

I consider the difference between a "documentary" and a "docudrama" to be that a documentary (which the BBC makes huge numbers of) has a narrator or a presenter telling the viewer about a subject, whereas a docudrama shows a dramatised recreation of those events. My personal preference is strongly for the former!

That's pretty much the way I look at it. This actually sounds more like what some call a biopic. Bohemian Rhapsody is a current example of a biopic.

j.p.s · 03-08-2019, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwalker8

That's pretty much the way I look at it. This actually sounds more like what some call a biopic. Bohemian Rhapsody is a current example of a biopic.

Why would a Tolkien biopic need authorization from the Tolkien estate?

Apache · 03-08-2019, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

I consider the difference between a "documentary" and a "docudrama" to be that a documentary (which the BBC makes huge numbers of) has a narrator or a presenter telling the viewer about a subject, whereas a docudrama shows a dramatised recreation of those events. My personal preference is strongly for the former!

Apache

crich70 · 03-09-2019, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Far safer to make documentaries about dead people than living. The dead can’t sue for libel.

Though the same may not be true for their heirs. His kids are still very much with us I believe.

crich70 · 03-09-2019, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maximus83

I *really* hope the documentary explores Tolkien's ardent Christian faith as a devout Catholic--which heavily influenced all of his major works. As opposed to turning it into a dryasdust recital of Tolkien's personal chronology. Or worse, a militant secularist scrubbing to sanitize or even reinterpret the historical record.

If it does include a more-or-less accurate and respectful coverage of Tolkien's Christian world view (as I thought the Shadowlands movie did about CS Lewis, despite some artistic license with the facts), I'd look forward to seeing it. When I see a documentary on any important historical figure--Christian, atheist, agnostic, or adherent of some world religion--I want to know what they really thought, what influenced their thought and work most, regardless what I may think of them.

As I recall when Shadowlands was made C.S. Lewis's stepson was a consultant for the movie so that it didn't go too far from the truth.

crich70 · 03-09-2019, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I always assume "docudrama" means that artistic license is going to be taken in the name of good story-telling. That in and of itself doesn't lessen my opinion of it--I enjoy a good story based on real events. It does, however, take it out of the realm of "Documentary" for me and into the realm of fiction (personally). Much like historical fiction is still fiction and not really History. Not inherently a lesser endeavor ... just a different one.

That's normal I would think. If someone is basically giving a televised lecture about this or that person or event then all you need is the basic facts but if you are trying to give a picture of how the person really was in life then you have to dramatize things a bit to avoid people finding it boring.

crich70 · 03-09-2019, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j.p.s

Why would a Tolkien biopic need authorization from the Tolkien estate?

They probably had to make sure that they didn't present Prof. Tolkien in an accidentally unfavorable light. For example say George Washington had living descendants. He had been in the British army before leading the troops in the American Revolution and during that time he would have had to requisition horses if such were needed. Basically he'd take them with a promise of payment later. Today we might call what he did horse theft and if it weren't presented properly in context his (hypothetical) descendants might be offended and sue the filmmakers. Prof. Tolkien's family could possibly do the same if they felt his memory was being desecrated.

frahse · 03-09-2019, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwalker8

There is that. I did enjoy Shadowlands and that took quite a few liberties with the facts of C.S. Lewis's life.

I did as well.

C.S. Lewis's personal life was pretty amazing, well beyond the character Debra Winger played.

Also C.S. Lewis and Tolkien were contemporaries and shared many a brew and argument.

"The Inklings"

https://books.google.com/books/about...page&q&f=false

pdurrant · 03-09-2019, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crich70

Though the same may not be true for their heirs. His kids are still very much with us I believe.

It isn't that the dead don't sue for libel (because they're dead), it's that it is impossible in law to libel the dead.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Getting into Tolkien - finally	LuceBianchi	Reading Recommendations	6	02-20-2013 02:19 PM
New Tolkien releases?	HarryT	Reading Recommendations	1	05-11-2009 01:10 PM
More Tolkien books - May 5?	whitearrow	News	3	05-06-2009 03:19 PM
More J R R Tolkien titles	amjbrown	News	0	05-06-2009 12:21 PM
I can't believe you can't get Tolkien...	WilliamG	Sony Reader	3	10-11-2006 06:08 AM

03-06-2019, 01:37 PM	#17
DiapDealer Grand Sorcerer Posts: 28,759 Karma: 206739468 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD	I always assume "docudrama" means that artistic license is going to be taken in the name of good story-telling. That in and of itself doesn't lessen my opinion of it--I enjoy a good story based on real events. It does, however, take it out of the realm of "Documentary" for me and into the realm of fiction (personally). Much like historical fiction is still fiction and not really History. Not inherently a lesser endeavor ... just a different one.

03-07-2019, 09:16 AM	#20
DiapDealer Grand Sorcerer Posts: 28,759 Karma: 206739468 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD	Sorry. I realize full well what the technical definitions are supposed to be in theory. It hasn't stopped them from being terribly abused in practice. No one really uses "docufiction" in the real world. It all--good, bad, meh--gets dumped into the docudrama label. I stand by my (admittedly personal) statement. If Docudrama were strictly factual, there'd be no reason to distinguish it from Documentary.

03-08-2019, 03:23 AM	#21
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,557 Karma: 93980341 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	I consider the difference between a "documentary" and a "docudrama" to be that a documentary (which the BBC makes huge numbers of) has a narrator or a presenter telling the viewer about a subject, whereas a docudrama shows a dramatised recreation of those events. My personal preference is strongly for the former!