News flash! Barnes & Noble buys Fictionwise for $15.7 million

Originally Posted by GeoffC

Just an extra thought - perhaps FW are unwitting victims of the current financial turmoil?

Yes, very possible. I also sent them 2 emails requesting support within the last month. Both went unanswered.

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by kazbates

That was one of my first thoughts! What with the purchase of the ereader format and then the down swing in the economy, Fictionwise might have needed to be under the umbrella of a more financial secure company.

Of course, my husbands first thought was that B&N bought it to crush the ebook market and get all those book buyers back into the stores!
Kaz

15.7 million would be quite a gamble to spend on such a goal. And it wouldn't work anyway since Sony and Amazon would still exist.

Dale

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by bill_mchale

I think there are significant differences between mp3's dominance of audio formats as compared to mobi's dominance of ebook formats. Part of the reason that mp3 became so popular was because of the easily available software that made it easy for people to convert their existing CD's into mp3 files. Pretty much by definition, nothing like that exists for books. Therefore, to a large extent, the Publishers still can have a major say in the actual format in which ebooks are distributed.

--
Bill

You raise an interesting point, will the winning format be the one pushed by the companies, or the one most easily converted to and from? We have some good tools at the moment, but nothing that would equate to the ripping of CD's to mp3. eCub provides funky output, Calibre is fantastic but not yet 'cd-ripping' easy, Feedbooks is also good if you have the time to manuallly cut-and-paste your text then download the preview without actually uploading to the site. The best I've found is the Book Creator macro here on Mobilereads, but alas I'm no longer on PC and there's no equivalent on my machine.

If someone comes up with combination of the tools mentioned above, mabye we'll have a WYSIWYIG solution that forces ePub domination over the others. Just spitballing, but if you could take a TXT file and with little or no intervention, push out an ePub the other end, then I think the adoption would skyrocket.

Oh, and on another note, you need the Pirates to adopt the format. It may sound counter-intuitive, but adoption by the Pirates would seal the deal on ePub becoming the standard.

[kazbates]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

15.7 million would be quite a gamble to spend on such a goal. And it wouldn't work anyway since Sony and Amazon would still exist.

Dale

He tends to be a conspiracy theorist! I told him he was delusional!
Kaz

[mjh215]

Originally Posted by cerement

Unfortunately PDF is not an ebook format, it's a layout format

I agree it is not an ebook format, but it can easily be argued to be the 'de facto standard' format that ebooks have been distributed in. I simply dislike that term, dfs, because of that reason. It is being used here as a means to an end, and yet it requires the arguing of definitions to qualify it.

ePub currently looks to be the best bet ...

It seems that way to me as well.

But I still wonder why we had to create yet ANOTHER ebook format with all the existing ebook formats out there (everything from the current TEI Lite all the way back to grand-daddy standards of LaTeX (from TeX) and DocBook (from SGML) ...

Because companies always like to have closed proprietary formats for the illusion of control. It is up to the consumer and knowledgable professionals to fight that as much as possible even if it can be a losing battle.

---

As for the MP3/OGG thread, I wouldn't purchase or support purchasing MP3's either. I own CD's (And vinyl ) with my archival format of choice for the longest time being FLAC, though now with HD's so cheap I just image them. I will listen to MP3 and Vorbis, but would not use either as my archival format.


-MJ

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by mjh215

I agree it is not an ebook format, but it can easily be argued to be the 'de facto standard' format that ebooks have been distributed in. I simply dislike the that term, dfs, because of that reason. It is being used here as a means to an end, and yet it requires the arguing of definitions to qualify it.


It seems that way to me as well.



Because companies always like to have closed proprietary formats for the illusion of control. It is up to the consumer and knowledgable professionals to fight that as much as possible even if it can be a losing battle.

---

As for the MP3/OGG thread, I wouldn't purchase or support purchasing MP3's either. I own CD's (And vinyl ) with my archival format of choice for the longest time being FLAC, though now with HD's so cheap I just image them. I will listen to MP3 and Vorbis, but would not use either as my archival format.


-MJ

I must admit that I've only got a few FLAC files, and predominantly use MP3, buy MP3 now. I hate that it's not open-source, but in this case I have become so used to it over the years, built such a collection, that I'm loathe to re-invest the time and effort to lug all the cases down from the attic and re-rip everything to FLAC/open formats

[Donnageddon]

I wonder what effect this will have on the red-headed stepchild ebookwise and the .imp format?**

The FAQ at fictionwise for the B&N purchase states:

Question: Will the Fictionwise.com and eReader.com websites remain open?

Answer: Yes! Both Fictionwise.com and eReader.com will continue to run as eBook retail websites.

No mention of ebookwise.

Donn

** if there are any red-headed stepchildren reading this, no offense was meant.

Originally Posted by mjh215

I agree it is not an ebook format, but it can easily be argued to be the 'de facto standard' format that ebooks have been distributed in. -MJ

How is that easily argued? I have never bought or had the chance to buy an ebook in PDF format - ever. (If I had the chance though, I'd pass)

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

It has been mentioned that Fictionwise has been working with Astak (an therefor Jinke) on this effort. And it is likely fairly far along with lots of assistance. I would expect that once eReader software runs on Linux the door will be open.

Dale

Of all the obsolete formats that are reflowable, eReader is the first that needs to go. The HTML that comes from eReader is nasty stuff. And making eReader the dominant format on an eink device is going to make that device obsolete before even a single unit is sold. So basically, do we want an obsolete device before it's even sold? And if they are planning one muking about with the DRM to add eReader DRM to ePub, I hope that falls flat fast. We alread have a very good DRM on ePub from Adobe that can be removed. We don't need more DRM that has to be reverse engineered. Once eReader is available for Linux, the door will be open and we'll have to close it pretty darn fast to keep the manure that is eReader in the stable.

[zelda_pinwheel]

Originally Posted by Donnageddon

I wonder what effect this will have on the red-headed stepchild ebookwise and the .imp format?**

The FAQ at fictionwise for the B&N purchase states:



No mention of ebookwise.

Donn

** if there are any red-headed stepchildren reading this, no offense was meant.

although i love my eb1150, i hate the imp format. i'd argue that it's been obsolete for a while but ETI did just issue an upgrade to their imp creation software which supports epub as a source file, so in that sense they're making an effort to stay current, which i appreciate (Garth Conboy, head of ETI, is on the idpf board). i've never bought an imp file though because it's an absolutely terrible archival format ; before i bought LIT and converted them, now i'll buy epubs whenever possible and only convert them if i want to read them on the 1150 (i'm mostly reading on a sony 700 now, which i bought because it came the closest to the features and ergonomy of the 1150, while adding epub support and an e-ink screen). i do hope it won't just disappear (they specifically mention all three sites both in the TeleRead article and in the B&N faq on the fictionwise site ; follow the link in the banner on the home page), simply because i love the device and would hate for all the other 1150 owners who don't like to convert to be left out.

Originally Posted by akira28

How is that easily argued? I have never bought or had the chance to buy an ebook in PDF format - ever. (If I had the chance though, I'd pass)

actually a LOT of pdf ebooks are available, and it's often the only format available when you're getting it directly from the author (who may not realise it's not a good ebook format) or from a publisher who's not yet caught up with ebooks. and then there is the huge quantity of personal and professional content which is often available as a pdf.

look at the innumerable threads on this forum asking "but will i be able to read pdfs on it ???" pdf has been around for so long and so many people know what it is before they even hear about ebooks that it could easily be argued that despite its flaws it has been the "de facto" ebook standard for years. i won't argue that it's a good ebook format though. just because it's widespread doesn't make it good.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by HarryT

We already have that situation with MobiPocket. It's not a "formal" standard, but every eInk device on the market except Sony supports it. Buy a Mobi book and you can read it on a Kindle, a CyBook, a BeBook, an iLiad, a Hanlin, a JetBook, etc etc., not to mention hand-held devices such as PDAs, mobile phones, etc, pretty much all of which can read the format.

The Jetbook does not handle Mobipocket. It handles PDF, FB2 and TXT.

I know that you're a big fan of ePub, but the simple truth is that, in today's market, MobiPocket is much more of a widespread and popular format than ePub is. Perhaps that will change in the future when more devices support ePub (which, as you know, should be happening within the next few months), but MobiPocket is today's "buy it once, read it anywhere" format.

ePub is certainly a much more "advanced" format in terms of its formatting capabilities, but that really doesn't matter for the typical novel.

But what ePub will bring is these advanced books that Mobipocket cannot handle in a rewlowable way that can be read on a 6" screen easily. It will be the (hopefully) demise of PDF as an eBook format. And ePub has other advantages that Mobipocket does not have like proper font support.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The Jetbook does not handle Mobipocket. It handles PDF, FB2 and TXT.



But what ePub will bring is these advanced books that Mobipocket cannot handle in a rewlowable way that can be read on a 6" screen easily. It will be the (hopefully) demise of PDF as an eBook format. And ePub has other advantages that Mobipocket does not have like proper font support.

What about reflowable PDF? I must admit I've only had a cursory glance, and don't know that much about it, but would this solve a lot of the problems we've been seeing with PDF in the past? Has anybody used it, seen it in action or have an opinon?

[zelda_pinwheel]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

What about reflowable PDF? I must admit I've only had a cursory glance, and don't know that much about it, but would this solve a lot of the problems we've been seeing with PDF in the past? Has anybody used it, seen it in action or have an opinon?

i've tried it out on the sony 700. it's definitely worlds better than a non-reflowable one, but it's a far cry from a properly formatted truly reflowable ebook. you lose all page layout and all the different parts of the book just run into each other. i don't find it pleasant to read at all, although if you've got no other options it's workable. but the visual aspect of reading (i like my books to be "beautiful") is very important to me, so others who put more importance on the content regardless of display (or who have no choice, in some cases) may think differently.

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

actually a LOT of pdf ebooks are available, and it's often the only format available when you're getting it directly from the author (who may not realise it's not a good ebook format) or from a publisher who's not yet caught up with ebooks. and then there is the huge quantity of personal and professional content which is often available as a pdf.

look at the innumerable threads on this forum asking "but will i be able to read pdfs on it ???" pdf has been around for so long and so many people know what it is before they even hear about ebooks that it could easily be argued that despite its flaws it has been the "de facto" ebook standard for years. i won't argue that it's a good ebook format though. just because it's widespread doesn't make it good.

I would think that many want the PDF form to read documents not ebooks as I would. If I am not mistaken the two major players in the ebook market, at least prior to Amazon, were Fictionwize/eReader and Mobipocket. Both of these have not offered pdf's but their own proprietary formats, to the bain of us all.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by Mr. Goodbar

I could also see a store scenario where you are browsing and next to the book is a fictionwise checkout slip. You take that to the counter, give them your FW id, pay for the book and it's emailed to the email address on your FW account. They would only need to integrate their POS systems between B&N and FW. I know, not as easy as it sounds, but still a viable approach.

That'd require drastic overhauls of FW's software. They don't currently email books; you log in and download them.

Attaching it to a brick-and-mortar purchase would mean disclosing identity aspects that FW doesn't currently require. (I use Paypal; FW doesn't know my legal name.) Which is probably not much of a concern, but would bother some people. Switching from "login and download" to "email" is a much bigger hassle; they'd have to find a way to add your purchased-in-person books to your account's bookshelf, so you could download it later. For Multiformat books, if the were emailed they'd need a filetype option.

I suspect that integrating FW & B&N sales would take a long time & serious coding issues--having a kiosk available in the store (or a laptop with USB cable) is much more likely. It'd be easy to encourage people to buy ebooks online while they're in the store; it'd be a lot more complicated to merge the two stores into a single financial operation.

Although I suppose they could sell a Fictionwise *coupon* that was good for a single specific book. Or they could sell a coupon for Micropay dollars.