I have found numerous pirated ebooks for free online. Please tell me the benefits of

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by leebase

Tsk Tsk...clever but wrong. The "Copyright" is the property. The RIGHT to Copy is the property. Not the "action of copying".

"I" wrote "My Book" and I own the Copyright for my lifetime plus 75 years. Nobody else, without my permission (and presumed compensation) may copy my book (except for explicitly listed purposes laid out in the govt' copyright statute).

If you have copied my book, without my permission and or compensation....you have robbed me. Theft of services is still theft.

As it relates to the point of the argument I was making....I view holding "the copyright" to be holding property. It's just that it becomes "not property" after a government defined period of time.

How is it property? It has value. It belongs to me. I can sell or transfer that value to another person. My children can inherit that as well.

It is therefore property.

So your argument is that it's property because you say it's property. Sorry, just because you say it's so, doesn't make it so. Copyright is a government granted monopoly, no more, no less. An individual book, be it paper or digital is property. The right to make a copy of it isn't.

Property is treated very differently in the US. Property can not be taken from someone without due process or just compensation, yet the term of copyright is set by Congress and can be changed at anytime. I'm pretty sure that you aren't going to see any laws passed by Congress saying that you can only own a house for 20 years and then anyone can move in with no compensation.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

So your argument is that it's property because you say it's property. Sorry, just because you say it's so, doesn't make it so. Copyright is a government granted monopoly, no more, no less. An individual book, be it paper or digital is property. The right to make a copy of it isn't.

Property is treated very differently in the US. Property can not be taken from someone without due process or just compensation, yet the term of copyright is set by Congress and can be changed at anytime. I'm pretty sure that you aren't going to see any laws passed by Congress saying that you can only own a house for 20 years and then anyone can move in with no compensation.

The World Intellectual Property Organisation defines "Intellectual Property" as "a category of property that refers to creations of the mind, such as inventions; literary and artistic works; designs; and symbols, names and images used in commerce."

Intellectual property can be owned, bought and sold, just like any other property. The fact that some types of IP have a limited lifetime doesn't alter the fact that it's "property".

[Greg Anos]

If so, it should be taxed like any other property. . .

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

If so, it should be taxed like any other property. . .

"Any" other property? What's the tax on money? Not on income from the capital, or capital gains, or real estate bought with capital, but on the actual capital itself?

There are many forms of property that are not taxed.

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

"Any" other property? What's the tax on money?Not on income from the capital, or capital gains, or real estate bought with capital, but on the actual capital itself?

There are many forms of property that are not taxed.

Inflation. . .

[Apache]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Quite seriously--and trust me, I'm not supporting counterfeits, stolen property, etc.--how? It's all well and good to say "AI," but that's like the old cartoon with "...then a miracle occurs..." in the middle of the formula. AI sounds good--but what's it mean? Does it mean that Deirdre with her "someone gave me this and I don't want it and I'm reselling it" gets "sniffed out" as a counterfeiter? What about those entities that buy designer goods in Asia, and resell them? That's legit, even if US Sellers wish it weren't. I buy Asian Skin care goods on Amazon and other vendors all the time, that I'd pay a LOT more for in Macy's, etc. Ditto legitimate sellers that have EBay stores, in addition to their other online storefronts. How can Amazon possibly sniff out what's the legit, versus the not? Or eBay, for that matter?

I think that this is one of those things that sounds easy, or sounds practical when you say "AI" really quickly--but in practice, it's not. I see that sort of thing all the time--"All I need is for someone to JUST fit this PDF that was made for 8.5" x 11" into 8" x 10"," as if that's something you and Gumby can do, in two minutes or less, when in fact, that requires a whole new layout of the book. It's not "easy" and it's not "just..." in terms of "just" being able to do it.

I suspect that sniffing out "bad" goods isn't that simple. And what about the goods that aren't cheaper, but which are still counterfeit? I'll give you a perfect example of the problems inherent in assuming that "the customer knows":

I saw a raft of reviews, on some jade items (jade facial rollers, as it happens, which my sister had requested as a gift), all screaming that "these are coutnerfeit! COUNTERFEITS!" and proudly bragging how these diligent shoppers had of course, reported these nefarious Fagins to Amazon, right? Y'know WHY they knew that they were counterfeits, and unworthy of money being spent?



Yeah, right. Let's all rely on the (illiterate) customer to tell us what's real, and what's counterfeit, you betcha.

Hitch

Jade is available in six natural colors: green, lavender, red, yellow, white and black with Green Jade being the most traditional and expensive color.
I get people like that in my store that tell me I do not know what I am talking about.
I also like the ones that tell me that 10K gold is better than 14k because it is harder. This is not always true since the alloys used will also determine hardness.
Apache

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

If so, it should be taxed like any other property. . .

I can't think of any property other than "real estate" which one is taxed merely for owning. If you own a chair, there's no "chair ownership tax". What did you have in mind?

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Inflation. . .

What's the tax on a gold bar?

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

What's the tax on a gold bar?

A gold bar isn't money. . .(An asset, yes, but not money. You can't pay taxes with it . . .)

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I can't think of any property other than "real estate" which one is taxed merely for owning. If you own a chair, there's no "chair ownership tax". What did you have in mind?

The city I went to University in taxed automobiles. Inventories can be taxed. The rule of thumb is - is it mobile? Will it run off if it is taxed? Such items are usually not taxed, as taxing them causes more damage that it gains. Doesn't mean they couldn't be taxed.

The "State" can tax anything it can point to. . .

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

The "State" can tax anything it can point to. . .

Certainly, but that doesn't mean that all property is taxed, as your comment that "[intellectual property] should be taxed like any other property" would appear to suggest. Most assets are not taxed.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

A gold bar isn't money. . .(An asset, yes, but not money. You can't pay taxes with it . . .)

Are you asserting that a gold bar cannot be property?

Or will you admit that some property is not taxed?

[DiapDealer]

I must say that I remain utterly unconvinced by those who insist that the definition of "property" cannot possibly be extended to include copyright. Same for those who insist that "theft" can't technically occur where there is no physical property involved.

[leebase]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Certainly, but that doesn't mean that all property is taxed, as your comment that "[intellectual property] should be taxed like any other property" would appear to suggest. Most assets are not taxed.

I imagine that upon your death, your Copyrights would be part of your estate and they would be subject to tax.

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

Are you asserting that a gold bar cannot be property?

Or will you admit that some property is not taxed?

Last I checked, an asset was usually considered property. . .

Let me be clear, property that a government has to maintain ownership records on, is usually taxed. (There are some jurisdictions in the US that don't tax real estate.) Property that the government does not maintain records on is rarely taxed, as it is difficult to impossible to prove ownership without massively intrusive searches.

What category does copyright fall in? Clearly the type that government ownership records are kept in. Which makes it reasonable to tax.

In addition, it tends to deprive the copyright holder the tendency extend copyright forever. It changes the equation from holding onto something that maybe, someday, be worth something of value, because the cost of holding it is zero, to determining whether or not it is worth the ongoing cost to maintain the copyright. A self correcting solution to keep copyright as a wasting asset. . .