ePub gets (yet) another DRM system

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

It certainly doesn't have anything to do with DRM or format wars.

At the moment, the only 'war' seems to between proponents of different ePub DRM and formats.
Kobo have their own ePub variant, and two different rending engines, which display the same book differently depending on which format it is in.
Amazon are just cruising along quite happily on their own.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Oh no! Not this tired old argument again! Haven't we heard about it enough in the Fall of Gondolin thread (amongst others?)

Keeping a book "out of print" includes refusing to license digital rights or going exclusive with a given channel.

Think of Rowling keeping digital rights and refusing to do digital and when she finally caved, doing it through Sony instead of going through the established stores. There are plenty of authors that license audio or regional rights independently. Or not at all. At their discretion.

That is copyright control.
Saying no is part of the deal.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

At the moment, the only 'war' seems to between proponents of different ePub DRM and formats.
Kobo have their own ePub variant, and two different rending engines, which display the same book differently depending on which format it is in.
Amazon are just cruising along quite happily on their own.

Yup.

They took to heart the Apple mantra of "it just works".
Like Apple they don't "burden" the user with choices or features.

It costs them some hardware sales on the margins but it saves them money on their end. And, when you get down to it, their goal is selling the books more than the hardware. Which is why they are one of the very few outfits still supporting an optional online reader. Hardware is just one way to draw customers in.

The more time and effort competitors spend arguing over plumbing, the less they have left to spend on competing at the bookstore level. And the more they muddy the commercial epub waters, the clearer the Kindle value looks.

Latest word is Sony wants to do Blockchain DRM.
So yet another "standard" is gestating.

https://www.engadget.com/2018/10/15/...-next-gen-drm/

https://www.zdnet.com/article/sony-e...otection-tech/

Catfights to follow.

https://boingboing.net/2018/10/17/an...-drowning.html

[shalym]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Keeping a book "out of print" includes refusing to license digital rights or going exclusive with a given channel.

Think of Rowling keeping digital rights and refusing to do digital and when she finally caved, doing it through Sony instead of going through the established stores. There are plenty of authors that license audio or regional rights independently. Or not at all. At their discretion.

That is copyright control.
Saying no is part of the deal.

...which has absolutely *nothing* to do with orphan works, which come to be when the rights-holder is unknown.

Shari

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Keeping a book "out of print" includes refusing to license digital rights or going exclusive with a given channel.

It's not that I don't understand what I'm saying. It's that I don't give a... care.

Keeping a book out of print has nothing to do with a new DRM scheme. It just derails the conversation into a tired old debate. It's like when someone feels the need to bring up Lyndon LaRouche.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

It's not that I don't understand what I'm saying. It's that I don't give a... care.

Keeping a book out of print has nothing to do with a new DRM scheme. It just derails the conversation into a tired old debate. It's like when someone feels the need to bring up Lyndon LaRouche.

Or "orphan books"? I didn't bring in that particular item. Look again.

And, Lyndon who?

[EowynCarter]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

But, with Kobo, you do not have to have anything to do with the DRM for kepub as you can download as ePub with Adobe Adept. The user has a choice.

Think of all of those Readers that are no longer supported that use RMDSK (ADE) and will never be upgraded to handle any other form of DRM. all of those users would be screwed as this new DRM will not work with their devices.

People will be pissed if they start buying ePub that they then find out they cannot read because the eBooks are not working with whatever they currently use.

This new DRM is just another way to screw with eBooks in an effort to try to get people to dump eBooks and move back to pBooks.

Exactly. The new DRM won't take off unless e-readers manufacturers follow to update. People won't buy stuff they can't read.

And personally, I like adept, can be easily removed . I'll be more wary with buying stuff if I can't remove the DRM anymore.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Or "orphan books"? I didn't bring in that particular item. Look again.

And, Lyndon who?

Oh, let me tell you all about Lyndon LaRouche, my friend. If you'll just read this 357 page pamphlet...

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by EowynCarter

And personally, I like adept, can be easily removed . I'll be more wary with buying stuff if I can't remove the DRM anymore.

Which flavour of Adobe's ADEPT? There is a newer hardened version which, to the best of my knowledge, has not yet been cracked.

See Nate Hoffelder's blog at Adobe Releases New Epub DRM for his take on this being a tempest in a teapot.

[EowynCarter]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Which flavour of Adobe's ADEPT? There is a newer hardened version which, to the best of my knowledge, has not yet been cracked.

See Nate Hoffelder's blog at Adobe Releases New Epub DRM for his take on this being a tempest in a teapot.

I know, but was this ever used ?

can't see an ebookstore putting up a warning message that the ebooks they sell can only be read on newer ereaders and apps, can you?

No, I think it much more likely that we will see almost no adoption of the new DRM. Instead I expect to see a repeat of the launch of the Nook store in 2009, when B&N announced their clever new DRM which no one else adopted.

I totally agree with Nate there. That's why the DRM cannot be changed and won't be changed. Too many readers from too many manufacturers.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Which flavour of Adobe's ADEPT? There is a newer hardened version which, to the best of my knowledge, has not yet been cracked.

See Nate Hoffelder's blog at Adobe Releases New Epub DRM for his take on this being a tempest in a teapot.

Originally Posted by EowynCarter

I know, but was this ever used ?

One library I use updated their Adobe Content Server server(s) and if you had a newer version of ADE, it delivered ebooks with the new version of ADEPT DRM. When I dropped back to using ADE 2.0.1, the ebooks were delivered with the old DRM. This is the only reason I still use that version of ADE and will continue to use it until it no longer works.

[EndStop]

Basic principles. You can't create a book that can be read but not cracked. If nothing else an application attached to a camera can read it off a screen and recreate it.

What you can do is:

1) Create a device that displays only books with uncracked DRM. A device can be uncrackable. We all know the answer to that one. Anybody with brains won't buy it if there is a viable alternative.

Still, the next kindle might only display Ebooks after the licence if confirmed via internet connection. Alternatively it can search a download for key passages of copyrighted text. How would you feel if you read half the book then your Kindle demanded cash to finish it? Lots of cash as a fine? Blacklists itself from the net for piracy?

2) Popularise Ebooks with additional interactive online content. Access to a web site can be uncrackable. How good is your social status/self esteem if you can read the book but not get involved with the whole experience?

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by EndStop

How would you feel if you read half the book then your Kindle demanded cash to finish it?

Authors have done this for years. It's called a series. "And if you liked this novel-length teaser, get your wallets ready for the REST of the story!" There's plenty of readers who already love being held for ransom by their favorite authors for decades at a time.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by EndStop

2) Popularise Ebooks with additional interactive online content. Access to a web site can be uncrackable.

This was tried with a cheesy series of crime novels called Level 26. Not as a form of DRM. Just an experiment in publishing, trying to draw the audience in further.

Level 26 is not just something you read. It’s an experience. Read, watch, log in. Enjoy!

Originally Posted by EndStop

How good is your social status/self esteem if you can read the book but not get involved with the whole experience?

I found I got along just fine. I don't see those types of books as 'the future!'

[EndStop]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Authors have done this for years. It's called a series. "And if you liked this novel-length teaser, get your wallets ready for the REST of the story!" There's plenty of readers who already love being held for ransom by their favorite authors for decades at a time.

Not exactly. As stands you just wait till somebody pirates the next book in the series. Besides while being held to ransom for the next book is fair, if the book ends before some sort of conclusion it's going to be hard to get a good review. It does happen, but I at least ain't into forgiving it.

I am talking about firmware in the kindle that will detect copyright material and react. You could load a pirated copy but it will just do a text compare with samples from a large selection of Amazon's better sellers. The processing power and storage involved is feasible.

The sting would be to not simply deny access to a pirated book but to do it in the most irritating way possible. I have heard of ideas for slowly removing features from pirated games on the same principle.