The Vent and Rant Thread

[HLS]

One of my 3 parakeets Loki almost died. He broke a blood feather and they can die from that. Blood all over He had what looked like a stroke or seizure as well. Some how he bounced back from it so god must be helping him. They just don't bounce back from these things for they are so tiny and fragile. He is still not 100% but noticeably better. I am keeping my fingers crossed.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by wodin

Dennis, there are two ways to convert corn to fuel; one is as you say refining the corn oil into biodiesel. The other is to ferment the sugar/starch in the corn to produce ethanol which is then mixed with gasoline to increase the volume. gasoline pumps here have signs saying that the gasoline may contain up to 10% ethanol.

True. I'd forgotten that. But that's essentially stretching the gasoline. Alcohol alone doesn't have the caloric energy required, which is why gasoline is used in the first place.

And using corn to produce alcohol to stretch gas has odd economics. IIRC, farmers get tax credits in exchange for doing it, so there's an indirect government subsidy. I suspect growing corn specifically to produce alcohol to be added to gas may not yield enough revenue to make it a viable product for the farmer without that assistance. (And you need to be a big grower farming a lot of acres to make it the sort of thing you might consider.)

Although I don't know if it's economical I'd think one could do both with the same corn. First squeeze out the oil, then ferment the remaining mash.

The oil is likely to be sold as cooking oil. Biodiesel is essentially recycling.

If you are fermenting the mash, motor fuel isn't the only end product. Another popular end product in that case is likely to be a form of whiskey. By US law, for example, bourbon whiskey must have at least 51% corn in its mash bill. And corn whiskey that isn't bourbon has been popular since the founding of the country.

I read a history of bourbon that suggested it originated in a Dutch colony in Virginia. The settlers were unhappy at not having decent spirits to drink. Wine had to be imported from Europe at high cost. The area was not well suited to growing barley or wheat, but they did have corn in abundance. A colony official had seen an account written by a Portuguese explorer on fermenting corn to make spirits, and that's what they did. What we now think of as bourbon likely had roots in that early practice.

Ultimately, the decision on which way to jump is likely economic. Farming is a business, and farmers grow crops for money. What end use pays the best?

There's a local distillery about an hour north of NYC producing corn whiskey, vodka, gin, and (once it's had a chance to age in the barrel a few years) bourbon and single malt whisky distilled from barley. The distillery is an outgrowth of a working farm, and is simply something else they can do with what they grow. They've reached the point where the distillery covers its costs, and are slowly and carefully expanding it to be a source of profit.

I've sampled their wares, and I'm a fan. I'm looking forward to their single malt.

I've been reading a fair bit of history, and one continuing amusing thread has been that one of the first things any culture has done after it settled down in one place and practiced agriculture was learn to produce alcoholic beverages from what they grew. An enormous number of significant events in history had roots in a desire to get sloshed.
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Dennis

[wodin]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

...

I've sampled their wares, and I'm a fan. I'm looking forward to their single malt.

Being a teetotaler I'll take your word for it.

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

I've been reading a fair bit of history, and one continuing amusing thread has been that one of the first things any culture has done after it settled down in one place and practiced agriculture was learn to produce alcoholic beverages from what they grew. An enormous number of significant events in history had roots in a desire to get sloshed.
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Dennis

Being a former slosh, I understand that completely.

[Hemmi]

Originally Posted by kcladyz

One of my 3 parakeets Loki almost died. He broke a blood feather and they can die from that. Blood all over He had what looked like a stroke or seizure as well. Some how he bounced back from it so god must be helping him. They just don't bounce back from these things for they are so tiny and fragile. He is still not 100% but noticeably better. I am keeping my fingers crossed.

Glad your birdie's bouncing back. They're so tiny, I'm sure they can't afford to lose much blood. I'll keep my fingers crossed for him as well.

[BetterRed]

Originally Posted by wodin

Dennis, there are two ways to convert corn to fuel; one is as you say refining the corn oil into biodiesel. The other is to ferment the sugar/starch in the corn to produce ethanol which is then mixed with gasoline to increase the volume. gasoline pumps here have signs saying that the gasoline may contain up to 10% ethanol.

Although I don't know if it's economical I'd think one could do both with the same corn. First squeeze out the oil, then ferment the remaining mash.

Ethanol's what I had in mind. Down here the motor fuel is branded E10. I believe they use corn, rapeseed, sorghum, cotton-seed and anything else they can get (usually low grade) to make it. We drink the ethanol made from sugar in Bundy-and-Cokes

Not sure it is economical now, it was 'all the go' when WTI was over USD100 a barrel.

BR

[CRussel]

Originally Posted by 4691mls

Well, if you ever find that they've managed to make non-bitter grapefruit let us know Sour I can take, but I don't eat grapefruit because of the bitterness.

Bitter is the one taste that is completely personal -- my wife perceives it completely differently than I do, finding some things bitter that I don't notice at all. To me, grapefruits are sour. But not bitter.

[cromag]

I find the white pith between the sections and the peel to be the most bitter. But, I peel and eat grapefruit like an orange, so I get plenty of it. I don't mind it.

[BetterRed]

Originally Posted by cromag

I find the white pith between the sections and the peel to be the most bitter.

Originally Posted by cromag

But, I peel and eat grapefruit like an orange, so I get plenty of it. I don't mind it.

But I do mind it, so I'm most particular when peeling citrus fruit.

For me oranges have a somewhat metallic taste, I think it stems from the orange concentrate that I was 'forced' to drink as a toddler (along with cod liver oil). It came in small brown bottles from the chemist (pharmacy), rationed of course.

And fresh coriander tastes like Lifebuoy soap. For a long time I thought that was peculiar to me and stemmed from rationing. Like most things soap was in short supply in England during and after WW2. Lifebuoy was the default brand. But, then I met a much younger Kiwi who didn't like fresh coriander because it tasted like hospital disinfectant. Apparently its quite common to perceive its taste as carbolic (phenolic) acid. When I eat Vietnamese or Thai, I ask them to 'hold the fresh coriander'

BR

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by BetterRed

Ethanol's what I had in mind. Down here the motor fuel is branded E10. I believe they use corn, rapeseed, sorghum, cotton-seed and anything else they can get (usually low grade) to make it. We drink the ethanol made from sugar in Bundy-and-Cokes

Not sure it is economical now, it was 'all the go' when WTI was over USD100 a barrel.

It's usually corn or soybeans used for that in the US.

I'm amused by peanut butter. The vast majority (except the "organic" variety sold at rather higher prices) doesn't have peanut oil in the mix. The peanuts made into peanut butter are roasted, crushed, and the peanut oil is collected and sold as a separate product. (Chinese restaurants, for example, use peanut oil in woks when stir frying.) The crushed peanuts used in peanut butter have some combination of cottonseed, rapeseed, or soybean oil replacing the peanut oil (and just what's in that mix will be determined by prices at the time it is procured.) Actual peanut oil is more valuable sold separately.

Economics won't be the only factor involved in doing in adding ethanal to gasoline. Desire on the part of governments to reduce dependence on foreign oil in places that don't produce their own will come into play. Some European countries, for example, impose high petrol taxes to encourage car owners to buy less, and "economy" cars are the norm.

I doubt it's actually economic in the US, which does produce its own oil, but there is strong political pressure to reduce fossil fuel usage, and the alcohol used for this is a renewable resource. In NYC, ConEd electric utility vehicles all seem to be biodiesel powered, and MTA buses are increasingly hybrid or powered by natural gas which is non-polluting. (ConEd's generating plants are not oil-fired. They've gone to natural gas.)
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Dennis

[DiapDealer]

Is it just me, or is a box of Wheaties never, ever, ever on sale? I pick up nearly every name-brand of cereal on sale at some point (because let's face it: dry cereal is too ridiculously priced NOT to sale shop), but I don't think I've encountered a box of Wheaties in the wild for anything other than full-retail.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by BetterRed

And fresh coriander tastes like Lifebuoy soap. For a long time I thought that was peculiar to me and stemmed from rationing. Like most things soap was in short supply in England during and after WW2. Lifebuoy was the default brand. But, then I met a much younger Kiwi who didn't like fresh coriander because it tasted like hospital disinfectant. Apparently its quite common to perceive its taste as carbolic (phenolic) acid. When I eat Vietnamese or Thai, I ask them to 'hold the fresh coriander'

BR

I cannot abide coriander/cilantro. Yes, yes, before someone leaps in, I know that they're not from the same part of the plant, but...the cilantro craze that started in the 80's has pretty much ruined AmMex for me (how I refer to the particular type of "Mexican food" that's served in the US SW, across Texas-NM-AZ-CA). I used to adore salsa, but now? Can't find it without it, so I'm stuck making it myself, which is fine, but...I never claimed to be a salsa (food) expert. I'm constantly picking the cilantro leaves off of food.

People claim that the coriander is warm flavored, sweet and toasty, but you'd never know it from me. I can't describe the taste of cilantro...licorice, perhaps? But I don't hate licorice. Soap? Yeah, I'd go with licorice soap. That's close.

What does get up my nose is this sort of pervasive foodie snobbishness and condescension about it--"Oh, if you would just [try it/eat it more/try it in smaller doses] you'd come to love it..." No. I won't. Believe me, I've tried, trying to solve my Mexican food problem, and even a quarter-pinch ruins a meal for me.

Hitch

[Bilbo1967]

Originally Posted by Hitch

I cannot abide coriander/cilantro. Yes, yes, before someone leaps in, I know that they're not from the same part of the plant

Aren't they? I always thought that they were the same thing but cilantro is the American term and coriander the British.

[ekbell]

Originally Posted by CRussel

Bitter is the one taste that is completely personal -- my wife perceives it completely differently than I do, finding some things bitter that I don't notice at all. To me, grapefruits are sour. But not bitter.

The genetics to do with tasting bitter are fascinating given the wide variations on what tastes bitter and how strongly. I find a particular red food coloring bitter which means that both smarties and Doctor Pepper are rather nasty (Doctor Pepper reminds me of cough syrup). However the bitterness enhances the flavor of cinnamon hearts.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Bilbo1967

Aren't they? I always thought that they were the same thing but cilantro is the American term and coriander the British.

They are and aren't. They are from the same plant, but different parts of the same plant. Cilantro is the herb (the leaves) and coriander is made from the seeds thereof, as I understand it. It's not merely Two Countries separated by a common language. ;-)

Hitch

[DiapDealer]

I've often wondered how they differentiate between the leaves and the ground seed in places where the plant is called coriander (as it pertains to purchasing the two for culinary purposes). Is it as simple as coriander/coriander seed?