Rant of a Reader

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by ekbell

Although my opinion may be biased due to living in a backyardless house full of people. I don't have a private venue to go to where I can reasonably expect no one to try to converse with me (and it's rude to ignore one's family). If I couldn't expect to be left mostly alone when walking through the local park or going to the library, I'd probably go bonkers.

One friend of mine keeps saying he is tempted to ask some of his family members for DNA tests. Having met several of them, I can understand that desire.

On more serious note, my family has come to realize that when I am reading, if the book is half decent, I get lost in the pages and they have to decide if what they have to say is worth the effort to drag me back into the real world.

[4691mls]

Originally Posted by BookHoarder

I fear the "what you readin?" question. I don't mind it if it comes from someone who actually reads for pleasure. But when it comes from a person whom I know hasn't read a book since they were forced to do so in high school I cringe on my insides. I feel that they don't really want to know, but rather they just do it to relieve some internal boredom within themselves.

I wouldn't like that either. If the same people at work keep doing this over and over, maybe you could try going into a long-winded speech about the book you are reading -or heck, any book you've ever read, the more boring the better - with an ereader, they can't tell if it's your current book - after you do that a few times I bet they'll stop asking!

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

It's the expectation that one should be able to avoid communication altogether while in human-herd situations that I find a bit odd.

I think most of us expect to have some communication with others when we are out in public. But wouldn't you be annoyed in a situation like Ripplinger reported - being stuck on a plane with no escape from someone who wouldn't shut up?

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by 4691mls

I think most of us expect to have some communication with others when we are out in public. But wouldn't you be annoyed in a situation like Ripplinger reported - being stuck on a plane with no escape from someone who wouldn't shut up?

It would depend on a lot of different things, but in general, no. The thought of a two-hour conversation with a stranger on a plane does not--at face value--sound horrific to me. The person would have to be an utter boor (or a complete jerk) for me to not willingly engage with them. And if I'm going to converse with a stranger, I'd much rather it be about our personal lives than spewing "polite inanities" about the weather. In short: unless I'm trying to sleep, I'm rarely opposed to conversation with strangers (or friends for that matter).

As far as it being when I'm trying to read, I don't really mind interruptions. I don't have a time-table I'm trying to keep. It doesn't matter to me if it takes me two-hours or two weeks to read a book I'm enjoying. I can always get back to it. Making a connection with another human is always higher on my to-do list.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

It would depend on a lot of different things, but in general, no. The thought of a two-hour conversation with a stranger on a plane does not--at face value--sound horrific to me. The person would have to be an utter boor (or a complete jerk) for me to not willingly engage with them. And if I'm going to converse with a stranger, I'd much rather it be about our personal lives than spewing "polite inanities" about the weather. In short: unless I'm trying to sleep, I'm rarely opposed to conversation with strangers (or friends for that matter).

As far as it being when I'm trying to read, I don't really mind interruptions. I don't have a time-table I'm trying to keep. It doesn't matter to me if it takes me two-hours or two weeks to read a book I'm enjoying. I can always get back to it. Making a connection with another human is always higher on my to-do list.

...and in this, I'm the opposite. I won't be intentionally rude to a person, but 9 times out of ten, I would much rather be left alone. I don't mind talking to someone when in line, or other such fleeting things, but if it's longer than 5 minutes, I'd much rather be reading. In general, other people just stress me out.

Shari

[Apache]

Originally Posted by DNSB

One friend of mine keeps saying he is tempted to ask some of his family members for DNA tests. Having met several of them, I can understand that desire.

On more serious note, my family has come to realize that when I am reading, if the book is half decent, I get lost in the pages and they have to decide if what they have to say is worth the effort to drag me back into the real world.

This describes me. When I am reading I am oblivious to anything going on around me. Even in public I do not hear them talking to me. My wife can get exasperated when she asks me a question and I do not answer. I am not ignoring her, I just do not hear the question. You have to ask me a few times to get me out of the story.
Apache

[4691mls]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

It would depend on a lot of different things, but in general, no. The thought of a two-hour conversation with a stranger on a plane does not--at face value--sound horrific to me. The person would have to be an utter boor (or a complete jerk) for me to not willingly engage with them. And if I'm going to converse with a stranger, I'd much rather it be about our personal lives than spewing "polite inanities" about the weather. In short: unless I'm trying to sleep, I'm rarely opposed to conversation with strangers (or friends for that matter).

As far as it being when I'm trying to read, I don't really mind interruptions. I don't have a time-table I'm trying to keep. It doesn't matter to me if it takes me two-hours or two weeks to read a book I'm enjoying. I can always get back to it. Making a connection with another human is always higher on my to-do list.

Originally Posted by shalym

...and in this, I'm the opposite. I won't be intentionally rude to a person, but 9 times out of ten, I would much rather be left alone. I don't mind talking to someone when in line, or other such fleeting things, but if it's longer than 5 minutes, I'd much rather be reading. In general, other people just stress me out.

Shari

Too bad there's not a way to make sure that people of each of these types are seated beside like-minded people on a plane!

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by 4691mls

Too bad there's not a way to make sure that people of each of these types are seated beside like-minded people on a plane!

Now that would be something!

[meeera]

Originally Posted by Deskisamess

Well, touching someone you don't know is not a great idea. But I see this type of thing as someone trying to be nice. When did we start getting so angry at someone trying to make conversation with us? A simple chuckle or smile at this wouldn't cost anything.

Are you a wheelchair user? Are you bombarded by people stopping you from going about your business and saying the equivalent of "HEY, YOU USE A WHEELCHAIR"?

It's not "nice", it's ableist rubbish, it's neither polite nor funny, and it needs to stop. If you wouldn't crack a race joke as your first approach to an Aboriginal stranger, or a gay joke as your first approach to a gay stranger, why barge up to a disabled stranger and launch into your overplayed routine?

[meeera]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Perhaps I wasn't being clear. I don't think you SHOULD be trying to get the message across. Because I don't think people are entitled to move through public venues in entirely cloistered cones of "don't look at me or interact me in any way" privacy.

Where are you getting "don't look at me"? This is a wilful misreading.

People can look at other people in public, though it's generally considered rude to stare. Repeatedly trying to catch someone's eye when they are declining that initial social contact, then further insisting on getting into their space and speaking to them and demanding a response when they also have both headphones in AND are avoiding your initial attempts at eye contact, is very badly misreading the social cues they are giving you.

There are generally plenty of people around open to interaction at any given time. Why force interaction on people who are telling you "no thanks"?

[meeera]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

So instead of silently raging about the audaciousness of a stranger who chose that moment to interrupt your private time; or grunting/nodding in pseudo-response to something they said (all the while hoping said grunt gets taken in the actual spirit of "leave me the hell alone" that your mind's ear so clearly heard you say it in), why not simply say, "I'm not interested in conversation right now. I'm trying to read this book." ? Or something similarly unambiguous? Why hint with body-language not everyone is fluent in?

You might need to read, listen, and learn what many women go through when they say things like this to some men who have initiated and then persisted in attempting contact despite their clear lack of interest. A grunt followed by going back to your solo activity is a clear lack of interest. I realise you think you're a Nice Guy, but at that point, to the other person you are a Schrodinger's box. They have no idea whether your next response is going to be "very sorry, I'll leave you alone", or a string of stuff that I'm pretty sure I can't write here.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by meeera

You might need to read, listen, and learn what many women go through when they say things like this to some men who have initiated and then persisted in attempting contact despite their clear lack of interest. A grunt followed by going back to your solo activity is a clear lack of interest.

I have no problems understanding when someone is not interested in talking. But I also understand that there are some perfectly nice people who can't. Quite frankly: if a grunt followed by going back to your solo activity was a clear and universal sign of lack of interest, we wouldn't be having this conversation. We have words that give clear meaning. We should use them instead of "signals" that are never as clear as the signal-giver believes them to be.

My willingness to talk (or understand someone doesn't want to talk) is unaffected by someone's gender or physical features. I'd appreciate it if you'd stop implying that I need some sort of education about interacting with certain groups of people. I've never harassed anyone in my life.

I realise you think you're a Nice Guy, but at that point, to the other person you are a Schrodinger's box. They have no idea whether your next response is going to be "very sorry, I'll leave you alone", or a string of stuff that I'm pretty sure I can't write here.

I don't think I'm a nice guy. I know it. The "other person" you're referring to doesn't exist. Because I'm fairly adept at reading "signals." That doesn't mean I can't point out (and lament the fact) that "signals" are the least effective form of communication out there. A man (and I use that term loosely) who would spew invective at someone for asking them politely to leave them alone is very likely to behave similarly to someone who grunts at them and ignores them. A pig is a pig.

[maddz]

Originally Posted by meeera

You might need to read, listen, and learn what many women go through when they say things like this to some men who have initiated and then persisted in attempting contact despite their clear lack of interest. A grunt followed by going back to your solo activity is a clear lack of interest. I realise you think you're a Nice Guy, but at that point, to the other person you are a Schrodinger's box.

Hear, hear. Persisting in forcing social contact on somebody who does not welcome it and makes that clear (whether by words or their non-response) counts as harassment. Why a total stranger seems to think that being in public means you are wanting social contact beyond what you initiate is beyond me. To me, that's just plain creepy - and damned inconvenient when you have a lot to do and just want to get onto the next errand.

[meeera]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

My willingness to talk (or understand someone doesn't want to talk) is unaffected by someone's gender or physical features. I'd appreciate it if you'd stop implying that I need some sort of education about interacting with certain groups of people. I've never harassed anyone in my life.

Read my post again and please put yourself in the other person's shoes, instead of only looking at it from your point of view. You are Schrodinger's Man at that point. The person you're persisting in pursuing contact with has absolutely no way of knowing that you're not about to launch into abuse or worse. Just pushing past that first boundary can be enough to set off an unpleasant adrenaline response, and the start of a look for exits and witnesses. I don't know whether you've not encountered this idea before, don't believe it, or something else, but I assure you it is real.

[DiapDealer]

I recognize when further conversation is pointless. Peace.

[John F]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I wouldn't, no. But then I'm a reader. I get it. But non-readers don't. They don't know how you feel about reading. They don't understand that you're not just reading to kill time. All they see is that you responded to them in some small way. Maybe they figure readers are capable of doing two things at once--heck I don't know. All I know is they're usually not trying to be annoying. So they deserve one of two things: our attention, or our polite but firm (and unambiguous) explanation why they can't have our attention.

...

It's interesting the conclusions/generalities that people make. But why wouldn't that person make a general connection that if someone seems to be intently engaged in an activity, don't interrupt them. I tend to make a general rule, if someone is engaged in an activity, I asume that is what they want or need to do, unless they are giving off some other cues.

Riding a bike, I don't have them stop and try to start up a conversation.
Jogging, I don't try to have them stop and try to start up a conversation.
Driving a car, I don't try to have them stop and try to start up a conversation.
At the movies, I don't try to have them stop watching the movie and try to start up a conversation.
Reading a book, I don't try to have them stop and try to start up a conversation.
At a dance club, I don't try to have them stop and try to start up a conversation.
If a construction worker is doing some jack hammering, I don't try to have them stop and try to start up a conversation.

It is a good general rule.

If I want to have a conversation with someone, I can just look around for someone else who isn't doing anything and is also looking around for someone else to talk to. Or wait for the person to take a break in their activity.