The Vent and Rant Thread

[Gardenman]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

The Netherlands, at least in the south, is probably world champion in roundabouts. The government is on a quest to replace all traffic lights with them.

Yes, they are more efficient, but they are also more dangerous. For many people, a red light still was an incentive to stop, as driving through it could net you quite a hefty fine. A roundabout? Nope. People do the craziest stuff on these things, and it's the main reason why I don't even dare to ride a bike anymore.

Due to poor eyesight I'm not allowed to drive a car, but I can still legally drive a bike. Up until the government started to replace traffic lights with roundabouts, that was what I did... until I got hit, _almost_, several times in a few days, by people who just _could not wait_ before I passed and tried to cut me.

I hate driving on them. I would much rather have red lights.

[Hemmi]

Roundabouts are horrible. Americans are not taught how to use them so we just don't get them. Now, you can take the time to learn but most don't. Our town recently put in a couple of roundabouts. They are not hugely successful since they made them round and painted the lines but put nothing in the center. People drive straight thru and treat it like a four way stop. If they bother to stop.

[Toxaris]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

The Netherlands, at least in the south, is probably world champion in roundabouts.

You have never been to Rotherham I take it? That is the worst place I know with regards to roundabouts.

I do not mind them, I only hate those where cyclists can come from two sides. Luckily, on most of them this is not allowed. In my experience most people behave rather nice on roundabouts, they only often forget to turn on their signalling when they leave the roundabout...

[BetterRed]

As a pedestrian I dislike drivers who stop for me where there is no formal pedestrian crossing or traffic lights. Me, patiently standing on a footpath waiting to cross a road is a hindrance to no one, but a car stopping in the middle of the road for no good reason hinders following drivers and cast doubts into the minds of oncoming drivers. Where possible I stand back from the kerb and try to look as if I don't even want to cross the road.

As for roundabouts I hate most of those I encounter around here. They are too small for large vehicles (like buses and twin-trailer tip-trucks) to negotiate there way around, so they drive over the top of central area, which one might assume is a safe zone; but its anything but when a fully laden one of these looms into view from behind you

There's a lot of so-called redevelopment happening around here, so there are squadrons of those things on the streets. Remember that hole the guy climbed out of to find and give me a couple of AA batteries; well at about 10 metres deep its finished, the hole that it is. Can you imagine how much rock came out of it. On one of my crack-of-dawn walks I watched 4 such trucks load up and there were several more waiting in a queue.

BR

[CRussel]

FWIW, studies have shown that roundabouts/traffic circles/whatever you call them are safer than a controlled intersection (stop sign or traffic light). And they actually move traffic through faster, with less backup. That being said, they are not the right answer for all intersections. Once the traffic level gets past a certain point, a traffic light is nearly always required, if only to break up the flow downstream to allow cross traffic and entry. That being said, they are not as good a solution for bicycles (or motorcycles) as are lights because of visibility issues.

[silverraven]

This may sound stupid, and please let me know if I'm wrong, but I heard years ago that the reason American traffic circles don't work is that we make them too small around. In other words, the ones in Europe have a much larger diameter and therefore the traffic doesn't have to slow to a snails pace like here in the US. Most traffic circles I have seen have a speed limit of 15ish mph. But, this may be different in different areas of the country, I just don't know.
S

[4691mls]

There are a couple of small traffic circles in my area which I use regularly. Mostly they work OK (the small size is OK for the amount of traffic except when a bus stops nearby). The only problem is the occasional confused driver. There are signs at each entrance indicating that one must yield to traffic already in the circle, and nobody seems to have a problem doing this. The problem comes when someone who has already entered the circle seems to think they need to yield to someone waiting at the next entrance, so the person already in the circle stops and holds up traffic. I don't know why they can't figure out that if they had to yield to traffic when they entered the circle, other incoming traffic will do likewise. Fortunately this doesn't happen very often.

[FizzyWater]

Originally Posted by CRussel

FWIW, studies have shown that roundabouts/traffic circles/whatever you call them are safer than a controlled intersection (stop sign or traffic light). And they actually move traffic through faster, with less backup. That being said, they are not the right answer for all intersections. Once the traffic level gets past a certain point, a traffic light is nearly always required, if only to break up the flow downstream to allow cross traffic and entry. That being said, they are not as good a solution for bicycles (or motorcycles) as are lights because of visibility issues.

I suspect this is the reason I hate the one they've put in on a very busy road recently.

I don't particularly like having to use the actual circle itself, but I know I'll get used to it. But I find that if you want to pull out from a nearby business, it's just about impossible (especially to cross over one lane of traffic to go in the other direction). There's never a stop in the traffic flow, at least not at the times I've visited that road. Eventually, you pull out in front of a car going in the same direction, hope they're paying attention and will slow down....then turn at the next light so you can turn around and actually go the other way.

That's not easy to say if you're trying to avoid saying "right turn" and "left turn" given that not everyone on this site drives on the right-hand side of the road.

[badgoodDeb]

You said it very well. I had a clear picture of what you were describing, and didn't even notice that you hadn't said "left" or "right". I just pictured it according to the side of the road I am used to.

That said, I've driven in the UK on 4 trips, and I like their round-abouts, since the local populace does know how to use them. I can see your "local business" or driveway issue, though.

[wodin]

Originally Posted by badgoodDeb

...
That said, I've driven in the UK on 4 trips, and I like their round-abouts, since the local populace does know how to use them. I can see your "local business" or driveway issue, though.

I've never driven in the UK but I've ridden in plenty of taxies there, absolutely terrifying! Especially if I was sitting in the front, where the steering wheel should be but isn't.

It's a little better after a night of pub crawling when my focus on where I actually am is a bit uh... deteriorated.

[4691mls]

Originally Posted by FizzyWater

I suspect this is the reason I hate the one they've put in on a very busy road recently.

I don't particularly like having to use the actual circle itself, but I know I'll get used to it. But I find that if you want to pull out from a nearby business, it's just about impossible (especially to cross over one lane of traffic to go in the other direction). There's never a stop in the traffic flow, at least not at the times I've visited that road. Eventually, you pull out in front of a car going in the same direction, hope they're paying attention and will slow down....then turn at the next light so you can turn around and actually go the other way.

That's not easy to say if you're trying to avoid saying "right turn" and "left turn" given that not everyone on this site drives on the right-hand side of the road.

The circles I use are not located in areas with a lot of nearby businesses. I can see how that would make it difficult.

Originally Posted by wodin

I've never driven in the UK but I've ridden in plenty of taxies there, absolutely terrifying! Especially if I was sitting in the front, where the steering wheel should be but isn't.

It's a little better after a night of pub crawling when my focus on where I actually am is a bit uh... deteriorated.

If I were to visit a country that drove on the left side of the road I don't think I would be able to drive a car. Decades of driving on the right would be too hard to overcome. Heck, if I'm watching a British TV show and someone's driving I sometimes cringe, thinking they're about to have a head-on collision because they're on the left side of the road. I suppose people who have been driving in England all their lives have the same reaction when watching US TV shows or movies.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by badgoodDeb

That said, I've driven in the UK on 4 trips, and I like their round-abouts, since the local populace does know how to use them. I can see your "local business" or driveway issue, though.

Most UK roundabouts are quite big. There are 'mini' roundabouts on some minor roads.

For the local business issue - just join the traffic going to the roundabout, and go all the way around the roundabout. But perhaps your roundabouts aren't big enough?

[BetterRed]

Originally Posted by 4691mls

I suppose people who have been driving in England all their lives have the same reaction when watching US TV shows or movies.

A good many Brits would have driven on the right in Europe, so they may not have the same reaction to seeing vehicles driving on the right, and many of those would have driven on the right in their LH drive vehicles. Years ago I did the reverse a couple of times, that was a bit of a challenge.

BR

[tempest@de]

We have many roundabouts here in several sizes and they are far better that traffic lights allowing the flow of traffic, they are especially useful when you have two (or more) roads that intersect and where one of them has heavy traffic has oppose of the other ones has they allow the traffic to flow as opposed to the traffic lights that close at set intervals regardless if someone is there or not, so the roundabout are more efficient. The roundabout should be dimensioned for the size of the road and type of vehicles, if it is small a long truck or a bus will have problems in it.

When we get our drivers license we learn how to navigate the roundabouts along with all the driving rules we must follow.

[wodin]

Originally Posted by 4691mls

...
I suppose people who have been driving in England all their lives have the same reaction when watching US TV shows or movies.

In the beautiful Sandwich Islands our tourism industry caters to many Japanese and Australian tourists, who of course are used to driving on the left. They do amazingly well with our uncivilized ways here in the colonies.