I miss browsing libraries and book stores

[darryl]

Originally Posted by HarryT

This would seem to be of little help to the OP.

This is true, Harry. On the other hand, a little humour in this thread is probably appropriate. If I am interpreting the original post improperly then my apologies to the original poster. However, it does seem to me that, whilst Amazon and other online bookstores systems are far from perfect, the idea of replicating the bookstore/library browsing experience online, particularly as the primary way to browse an online store, is simply ridiculous.

And there is an easy way for virtually all of us to get that bookstore/library experience. That is to visit a bookstore or library. I see no reason at the moment for all of us who want this and have some mobility to miss out on it.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by darryl

However, it does seem to me that, whilst Amazon and other online bookstores systems are far from perfect, the idea of replicating the bookstore/library browsing experience online, particularly as the primary way to browse an online store, is simply ridiculous.

With the very greatest respect, darryl, the fact that it's something that you don't personally wish to do does not make the OP's desire "ridiculous", but simply one that differs from your own.

I've already suggest that the genre-specific "best-seller" listings at sites like Amazon are likely to provide the type of content one would encounter in a typical bookstore.

[kacir]

Originally Posted by RobFreundlich

I miss the experience of going to the book store or library, picking a section ("genre", for those of you who only ever shop online), and just looking around.

I only very rarely browsed bookstores in my youth. I very early understood that to support my book reading addiction I do not have enough purchasing power or shelf space at home.

I had a membership in about 6 libraries here - all within walking distance.
When I visited the library my first steps always led to the "recently returned, waiting for re-shelving" stack of books. Very often I got my book quota for the week using only this pile. And the librarians very wisely did not hurry with the re-shelving of the books because they knew that many of the most popular titles would be borrowed within a few hours after being returned.

Originally Posted by RobFreundlich

Is there any website that offers an experience like this? Amazon and the others are great if you know what you're looking for, but they suck for this kind of browsing.

To discover and browse books nowadays I use various servers.

http://www.literature-map.com/
You enter a name of your favorite writer. The server displays a dynamic map or writer names. The more similar their books, the closer the writers are. The writer you have queried is in the middle of the screen. You should see a few names you recognize and you can then discover new authors with similar style / type of books to your favorite authors.

www.goodreads.com
look at the awards, www.goodreads.com/choiceawards/best-books-2017 for the best books sorted by genere.
Rate some books and GoodReads will make suggestions depending on what you like to read. When you have already read the suggested book rate it too, so you get even more fine-tuned recommendations. When you find an interesting books you can see what other people say about it, and what other people that like this one book also like.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by kacir

http://www.literature-map.com/
You enter a name of your favorite writer. The server displays a dynamic map or writer names. The more similar their books, the closer the writers are. The writer you have queried is in the middle of the screen. You should see a few names you recognize and you can then discover new authors with similar style / type of books to your favorite authors.

I've always found this a most peculiar site myself. It is not based on any similarity between authors, but simply on people's likes. If a lot of people like author "A" and author "B", then searching for "A" will display "B" in close proximity. That's not at all the same thing as saying that the two authors are similar in any way, unless one happens to believe that people are not capable of liking different types of book.

[darryl]

Originally Posted by HarryT

With the very greatest respect, darryl, the fact that it's something that you don't personally wish to do does not make the OP's desire "ridiculous", but simply one that differs from your own.

I've already suggest that the genre-specific "best-seller" listings at sites like Amazon are likely to provide the type of content one would encounter in a typical bookstore.

Harry, your suggestion to the OP is a good one. It may get him a little closer to the experience that he is missing out on. I do not find his love of browsing physical stores or libraries ridiculous, even though I don't share it. I find two things ridiculous. The idea that this experience is being missed when it is still available to just about all of us who want it and the idea that we should be trying to replicate this experience online, particularly as a major interface in online stores.

Addendum: Cars use steering wheels, brakes and sometimes a clutch to operate them. I'm sure with a bit of ingenuity we could have made them controllable instead by a set of reins to replicate the controls of an old horse and carriage. But why? And for those who really love driving a horse and carriage, I'm sure the experience is still available, though perhaps these days not as readily as bookstores and libraries.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I've always found this a most peculiar site myself. It is not based on any similarity between authors, but simply on people's likes. If a lot of people like author "A" and author "B", then searching for "A" will display "B" in close proximity. That's not at all the same thing as saying that the two authors are similar in any way

People seem to have a really hard time understanding that literature-map is not about finding similar authors. It's about exactly what you mentioned: grouping authors simply on people's likes. Nothing more, nothing less. A lot of people who like A, also tend to like B, C, D and E. Nothing more, nothing less. I find that incredibly helpful; regardless of the similarities (or lack thereof) between authors close to the center of the map. Why does it need to group similar authors to be un-peculiar/more useful?

[GeoffR]

One good feature of browsing paper books in libraries and bookshops was that a book could only be in one category, on one shelf.

It might seem like an advantage that ebooks can be un an unlimited number of categories at once, but in practice I think this hampers browsing because it is so abused by sellers and unregulated by ebook retailers.

Browsing by category at online retailers would be much improved for me if they only allowed each book to be in one category, and I think it would make the sellers think more carefully about which category to put it in.if they could only choose one.

[darryl]

Originally Posted by GeoffR

One good feature of browsing paper books in libraries and bookshops was that a book could only be in one category, on one shelf.

It might seem like an advantage that ebooks can be un an unlimited number of categories at once, but in practice I think this hampers browsing because it is so abused by sellers and unregulated by ebook retailers.

Browsing by category at online retailers would be much improved for me if they only allowed each book to be in one category, and I think it would make the sellers think more carefully about which category to put it in.if they could only choose one.

Good point and good suggestion. It may be better if the seller prioritised the categories and then the user could pick the maximum number of categories to show.

[RobFreundlich]

Originally Posted by darryl

To the OP. What on earth is the point of your post? A visit to Amazon or most online bookstores is to me far superior to a visit to any physical bookstore I have ever graced with my presence. But I appreciate that some others feel differently.

But why would an online store seek to mimic the inferior physical bookstore experience?

The point of my post is that I don't find a visit to an online bookstore to be superior to a visit o a physical bookstore. Not for browsing, at least.

I appreciate that you feel differently, but for me, at least, I would like to see an online store provide a similar experience to the (in my opinion) superior physical store browsing experience precisely because I find the physical experience to be better. There's no reason it couldn't offer both - one for you, and one for me.

Originally Posted by darryl

What would it have to do? Firstly, it would have to cut availability dramatically. Then, perhaps we could have a VR walk-through of virtual shelves with this limited collection displayed in whatever perverse order bookshops used. Perhaps you could select from random, alphabetical, or perhaps dewey decimal.

I never said I wanted an identical experience - I want a similar or equivalent experience. I want the ease of browsing by author and getting a quick sense of what the author is all about by looking at the blurbs about his or her books. I want to see all of the books in a series in one fell swoop. I want to easily differentiate between books. I want to be able to quickly scan through large amounts of data.

These are all things that user interfaces can make possible, without requiring VR. The fact that Amazon et al haven't done it doesn't mean it's not possible - it means it doesn't fit their purpose. That's the point of the soapbox-ish part of my original post.

[RobFreundlich]

Originally Posted by kacir

I had a membership in about 6 libraries here - all within walking distance.
When I visited the library my first steps always led to the "recently returned, waiting for re-shelving" stack of books. Very often I got my book quota for the week using only this pile. And the librarians very wisely did not hurry with the re-shelving of the books because they knew that many of the most popular titles would be borrowed within a few hours after being returned.

The family trip to the library was a regular part of my life when I was growing up, and is a huge part of why I love to read. It's also how I discovered my love of classic Science Fiction and Fantasy (well, that and my father's collection).

We'd take a large cardboard box full of our returns with us, Mom and Dad would take it to the counter, and the three of us would run off to the stacks and start picking out this week's (or two weeks') haul. When we got home, we'd each take our pile to our room and read them over the next week or two, putting the finished books in the box in the hall. It was invariably full by the time everything was due, and it was time to do the whole thing again.

Originally Posted by kacir

http://www.literature-map.com/
You enter a name of your favorite writer. The server displays a dynamic map or writer names. The more similar their books, the closer the writers are. The writer you have queried is in the middle of the screen. You should see a few names you recognize and you can then discover new authors with similar style / type of books to your favorite authors.

This is pure gold. Thanks!

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by RobFreundlich

I want the ease of browsing by author and getting a quick sense of what the author is all about by looking at the blurbs about his or her books. I want to see all of the books in a series in one fell swoop. I want to easily differentiate between books. I want to be able to quickly scan through large amounts of data.

Can I ask (seriously) what physical bookstore or library has ever been able to provide you that experience?

I get that you like the physical experience better, but the improvements you're wanting in the online experience don't actually seem to match up all that well with the advantages of physical browsing, in my opinion. i.e. "Quick sense of what the author is all about" or "see all the books of a series" or "quickly scanning large amounts of data" aren't things I associate with my trips to the book store.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by GeoffR

Browsing by category at online retailers would be much improved for me if they only allowed each book to be in one category, and I think it would make the sellers think more carefully about which category to put it in.if they could only choose one.

That's precisely the problem with online bookstores for me: that their classification systems are poor.

The other day, for example, I happened to be looking for books on Shakespearean criticism. Such books would be easy to find in my university library: I'd use their Dewey Decimal classification (822.33E, should anyone be wondering ). If I want to look for such books at Amazon, though, there's simply no way to find them. Sure, there's a category "Literary Criticism and Theory", which is where they should be, but if you look in that category all you'll see is literally tens of thousands of books that have been misclassified by their publishers (the top one, for example, is a "Harry Hole" novel by Jo Nesbo). Unless you happen to have a title or an author in mind, finding non-fiction books by category at Amazon is close to impossible.

I could very easily find such books at my nearest decent physical bookshop because, like the library, they classify their non-fiction books using the Dewey Decimal system. Unfortunately the shop is a good 3h round trip away from me.

[GlenBarrington]

I don't miss browsing bookstores one bit! I do miss the really old "mom and pop" shops but in flyover country, they disappeared in the early 1970s when B&N moved to town. The last one of those died when I was a very young man. But they DID have a very limited selection, usually dictated by the tastes of the old lady behind the counter!

Nope! I see Amazon and Kobo, and all the other online shops as a good thing, full of the future! Bring me some more future please!

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by GlenBarrington

Nope! I see Amazon and Kobo, and all the other online shops as a good thing, full of the future! Bring me some more future please!

How would you address the issue I raised in my previous post, Glenn: that of finding books on a particular topic when you don't have any specific books in mind? This really is virtually impossible to do in any of the current online bookstores!

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

People seem to have a really hard time understanding that literature-map is not about finding similar authors. It's about exactly what you mentioned: grouping authors simply on people's likes. Nothing more, nothing less.

I know. I was responding to kacir's description of it:

You enter a name of your favorite writer. The server displays a dynamic map or writer names. The more similar their books, the closer the writers are.

which does suggest that the search is by similarity.