Is the ereader dead? - Page 16

rcentros · 03-06-2018, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crich70

Jeff Bezos even talked about the glare of the screen on a computer when they were bringing out the 1st generation Kindles. He stated that it was like trying to read with a flashlight shining in your face, and that if you have something on a computer that you want to read most people print it out so as to avoid that glare. (That was the interview with Charlie Rose some yrs back

)

I haven't been able to find it, but within the last year somebody with Amazon mentioned that their heavy readers mostly used Kindles rather than tablets. I think they were dispelling rumors that eInk eReaders were dead, which would be perfect for this thread, but I haven't been able to find it. (Maybe I dreamed it.)

At any rate, I don't care (except that I -- personally -- want to see eInk devices continue to be developed and sold). For me it's not even a contest which is better, but if others are more comfortable with tablets or smartphones ... that's what choice is all about.

DNSB · 03-06-2018, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

It most certainly is.

And wouldn't it be wonderful if no one used their own personal choices to make judgements about who is, or isn't a "real" reader?

And wouldn't it be even more wonderful if people didn't misuse the word "real" in ways that--intentional or not--can be construed as insulting or confrontational.

Is this like "people of good conscience"? "Real readers" seems to work just fine for some people to slightly misquote.

rcentros · 03-06-2018, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnotherCat

Well, just to come to the party I have to advise that I am not a "real" reader and I confess that may account for the fact that I no longer qualify for and have discarded using eink readers.

The good news, you can reform yourself, brother! Slowly back away from your evil tablets and smartphones and return to your enlightened eReaders! -- or "unenlightened" ones if your like me. Us real readers stand ready to forgive you of all your indiscretions. We're a forgiving lot.

DNSB · 03-06-2018, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnotherCat

Well, just to come to the party I have to advise that I am not a "real" reader and I confess that may account for the fact that I no longer qualify for and have discarded using eink readers.

But rather I am an unreal reader, like in "Hey bro, you're an unreal reader, the number of books you get through is just sooooo unreal compared to everyone else. And that tab you use for reading is just sooooo unreal too!"

Nah, you're not unreal. From mathematics, if you are not real, you are imaginary.

Or if you are complex (have a nontrivial imaginary part), you can be nonreal.

I can resist anything except temptation. Oscar Wilde, Lady Windermere's Fan, Act 1

AnotherCat · 03-06-2018, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DNSB

Nah, you're not unreal. From mathematics, if you are not real, you are imaginary.

Or if you are complex (have a nontrivial imaginary part), you can be nonreal.

No, no, you have it incorrect. Going to the mathematics for interpretations can lead to misunderstanding.

For example, I am a transcendental reader (i.e. my reading is of transcendent quality, so surpassing and excelling in my reading and choice of reading devices). But I am certainly not something that is just incapable of being produced in a finite number of algebraical operations as a misguided mathematical interpretation might lead one to - of course, if we were talking about calculators rather than reading devices such a comparison might be valid in my case.

ilovejedd · 03-06-2018, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnotherCat

of course, if we were talking about calculators rather than reading devices such a comparison might be valid in my case.

Technically, e-readers are calculators.

jbjb · 03-06-2018, 04:51 AM

I struggle to see where the conflict in this tread is coming from. All ZodWallop was saying was that the heavy readers in his workplace tended to use e-ink. I see no reason not to assume he's right.

As far as I can see that's not a general claim beyond his workplace, so I don't see where the upset is coming from.

If the objection is 'heavy readers' vs 'real readers', then people need to calm down a bit - it's pretty clear from context what he meant.

His claim certainly didn't come across to me as in any way snobbish or derogatory.

In any case, even if it had been a general claim, saying 'real readers mostly use e-ink' is not the same thing as saying 'anyone who doesn't use e-ink isn't a real reader'.

Storm in a teacup!

latepaul · 03-06-2018, 05:17 AM

The wider issue is that people tend to generalise from their own experience, OR they assume that their experience, being a counter-example, disproves a more general trend.

Leaving aside the clickbait headline the article in the OP seems quite reasonable to me. It's certainly not anti eInk reader, referring to them as "inventive technology" and calling the decline in their use "tragic". What it is doing is reporting on a decline, with figures to back it up.

It's fine to disagree with the conclusions drawn by the article from the data, but an anecdote or two doesn't counter the trend shown by that data, because well it's a trend.

It can be both true that use of eInk has declined and you and all your friends still use and love eInk devices.

DiapDealer · 03-06-2018, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbjb

All ZodWallop was saying was that the heavy readers in his workplace tended to use e-ink.

If he meant "heavy," then he should have said "heavy." I wouldn't have had a problem in the world with that statement. "Heavy" doesn't carry the value judgment that "real" does.

Quote:

If the objection is 'heavy readers' vs 'real readers', then people need to calm down a bit - it's pretty clear from context what he meant.

That is my entire objection. Not sure why that would be unclear. I understand full well that lots and lots of readers (heavy, light, avid, casual) prefer eink. As to it being "pretty clear" what he meant from context; I disagree completely. I read "value judgment" from the context. And he's said nothing to clarify anything but the "all" portion of his statement.

jbjb · 03-06-2018, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

As to it being "pretty clear" what he meant from context; I disagree completely. I read "value judgment" from the context.

There we'll have to differ. I didn't get any impression of value judgement at all.

Alohamora · 03-06-2018, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crich70

Jeff Bezos even talked about the glare of the screen on a computer when they were bringing out the 1st generation Kindles. He stated that it was like trying to read with a flashlight shining in your face, and that if you have something on a computer that you want to read most people print it out so as to avoid that glare. (That was the interview with Charlie Rose some yrs back

)

That "flashlight in the face" argument irritates me no end. TURN DOWN THE BRIGHTNESS, yes I'm shouting.
The range of brightness really doesn't go low enough on some devices, at least not without help. There are apps for that. The Google Play Books reader app has the virtue of going quite dim for reading in a dark room. It does a better job of low light reading than the Kindle app, which I otherwise love. There are also stand-alone apps to lower screen brightness.

latepaul · 03-06-2018, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alohamora

That "flashlight in the face" argument irritates me no end. TURN DOWN THE BRIGHTNESS, yes I'm shouting.

Ironically I usually find tablets much better for this and eInk. Because I can turn down the brightness, and have black background, and choose a foreground color (which can be something softer than a pure white).

With my lighted eInk readers I often find that the brightness goes from too much, to too little to give decent contrast, in a single step. Which is why, where it's available, the invert feature is invaluable for me.

ZodWallop · 03-06-2018, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbjb

I struggle to see where the conflict in this tread is coming from. All ZodWallop was saying was that the heavy readers in his workplace tended to use e-ink. I see no reason not to assume he's right.

As far as I can see that's not a general claim beyond his workplace, so I don't see where the upset is coming from.

If the objection is 'heavy readers' vs 'real readers', then people need to calm down a bit - it's pretty clear from context what he meant.

His claim certainly didn't come across to me as in any way snobbish or derogatory.

In any case, even if it had been a general claim, saying 'real readers mostly use e-ink' is not the same thing as saying 'anyone who doesn't use e-ink isn't a real reader'.

Storm in a teacup!

Thank you. That is exactly right.

ZodWallop · 03-06-2018, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

If he meant "heavy," then he should have said "heavy." I wouldn't have had a problem in the world with that statement. "Heavy" doesn't carry the value judgment that "real" does.

Sorry. I'm not into fat shaming. I don't care what a reader's weight is.

Also, I'm not going to tailor my words to suit your needs.

barryem · 03-06-2018, 04:46 PM

In the past decade I've read a lot of reports that, due to tablets, the PC was dead. I've read reports that due to ebooks, print is dead. Others say that ebooks are in decline and probably dead or dying. Phones killed tablets. Tablets killed laptops. And yet in the past year I've bought new ereaders, tablets, laptops and even an MP3 player, which was reported dead long ago. The year before I bought a new phone.

I think when people say a technology is dead they just mean it isn't selling as much this year. It's slang.

Alive means it's the leading edge. Dead means it's just doing okay.

Barry

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03-06-2018, 04:51 AM	#232
jbjb Somewhat clueless Posts: 772 Karma: 9999999 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis	I struggle to see where the conflict in this tread is coming from. All ZodWallop was saying was that the heavy readers in his workplace tended to use e-ink. I see no reason not to assume he's right. As far as I can see that's not a general claim beyond his workplace, so I don't see where the upset is coming from. If the objection is 'heavy readers' vs 'real readers', then people need to calm down a bit - it's pretty clear from context what he meant. His claim certainly didn't come across to me as in any way snobbish or derogatory. In any case, even if it had been a general claim, saying 'real readers mostly use e-ink' is not the same thing as saying 'anyone who doesn't use e-ink isn't a real reader'. Storm in a teacup!

03-06-2018, 05:17 AM	#233
latepaul Wizard Posts: 1,270 Karma: 10468300 Join Date: Dec 2011 Device: a variety (mostly kindles and kobos)	The wider issue is that people tend to generalise from their own experience, OR they assume that their experience, being a counter-example, disproves a more general trend. Leaving aside the clickbait headline the article in the OP seems quite reasonable to me. It's certainly not anti eInk reader, referring to them as "inventive technology" and calling the decline in their use "tragic". What it is doing is reporting on a decline, with figures to back it up. It's fine to disagree with the conclusions drawn by the article from the data, but an anecdote or two doesn't counter the trend shown by that data, because well it's a trend. It can be both true that use of eInk has declined and you and all your friends still use and love eInk devices.

03-06-2018, 04:46 PM	#240
barryem Wizard Posts: 2,459 Karma: 68781975 Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Arkansas Device: Paperwhite 4	In the past decade I've read a lot of reports that, due to tablets, the PC was dead. I've read reports that due to ebooks, print is dead. Others say that ebooks are in decline and probably dead or dying. Phones killed tablets. Tablets killed laptops. And yet in the past year I've bought new ereaders, tablets, laptops and even an MP3 player, which was reported dead long ago. The year before I bought a new phone. I think when people say a technology is dead they just mean it isn't selling as much this year. It's slang. Alive means it's the leading edge. Dead means it's just doing okay. Barry