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Old 02-27-2018, 08:15 PM   #91
Thasaidon
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@JSWolf. I sometimes think it is just sheer greed. I think the large publishers do in fact get how easy it is to find pirated ebooks. And it scares them beyond reason. Because they see every download of a pirate ebook as being a lost sale, and calculate their "losses" by applying full retail price to every download they estimate. They should be thinking aren't we lucky! Everyone could get our books for free and we'd have no business, but hardly any of them choose to! How can we keep it that way? Instead they sometimes seem to go out of their way to alienate their customers.
Not only greed. I have seen this before in other groups who think of themselves as part of an elite. The other two terms I think apply are arrogance and a feeling of entitlement
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Old 02-27-2018, 08:43 PM   #92
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Not only greed. I have seen this before in other groups who think of themselves as part of an elite. The other two terms I think apply are arrogance and a feeling of entitlement
Excellent point. Such elites get to a point where their own view of the world diverges so much from reality that it causes them real problems and endangers their very existence. Because they base their decisions in the real world on their own distorted view of it.
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Old 02-28-2018, 01:57 AM   #93
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Not only greed. I have seen this before in other groups who think of themselves as part of an elite. The other two terms I think apply are arrogance and a feeling of entitlement
It occurs to me that those two terms could also be used for people who think that they have a right to buy any book they wish for unreasonably low prices.

Books are a product like any other, and the producer is entirely within their rights to restrict availability and set whatever price they wish. The market will decide whether or not their decisions are economically sound, but there is no inherent "right" to be able to buy books for peanuts.
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Old 02-28-2018, 03:35 AM   #94
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It occurs to me that those two terms could also be used for people who think that they have a right to buy any book they wish for unreasonably low prices.

Books are a product like any other, and the producer is entirely within their rights to restrict availability and set whatever price they wish. The market will decide whether or not their decisions are economically sound, but there is no inherent "right" to be able to buy books for peanuts.
I would go along with that.

The only caveat I would make is that the market should be as free as it is possible to make it and not manipulated specifically to benefit any one group.
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Old 02-28-2018, 04:48 AM   #95
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It occurs to me that those two terms could also be used for people who think that they have a right to buy any book they wish for unreasonably low prices.

Books are a product like any other, and the producer is entirely within their rights to restrict availability and set whatever price they wish. The market will decide whether or not their decisions are economically sound, but there is no inherent "right" to be able to buy books for peanuts.
@Harry. I haven't seen anything in this thread that suggests that anyone has a right to buy any book for "unreasonably low prices" or "peanuts". The present issue under discussion is the wisdom of not making an ebook available in a particular region given the nature of the market including particularly the ready availability of pirated ebooks and the relative ease of avoiding geo-blocking. The market will of course be the ultimate arbiter, though I'm not sure we will ever know the result on this particular issue. On the issue of pricing I think we are seeing the results already. It must be a great comfort to the Big 5 and their authors that rather than resorting to piracy many are apparently turning to Amazon, Indies and smaller innovative publishers.
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Old 02-28-2018, 05:11 AM   #96
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In terms of the Dirk Pitt series, I don't know who's fault it is that the complete series is not available in the US. But why would some be available and not the rest? It just makes some people disillusioned with eBooks or turn to the net to find them or to go shopping in another country.
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Old 02-28-2018, 08:09 AM   #97
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If the publisher who owns the ebook rights for an area, assuming it does own the rights and doesn't simply assume it has the ebook rights because it does have the paper rights, refuses to publish can't the author take those rights back and publish themselves? Of course that would mean lawyers, time and money fighting their publisher (non-publisher?)
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Old 02-28-2018, 09:36 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by darryl View Post
@Harry. I haven't seen anything in this thread that suggests that anyone has a right to buy any book for "unreasonably low prices" or "peanuts". The present issue under discussion is the wisdom of not making an ebook available in a particular region given the nature of the market including particularly the ready availability of pirated ebooks and the relative ease of avoiding geo-blocking. The market will of course be the ultimate arbiter, though I'm not sure we will ever know the result on this particular issue. On the issue of pricing I think we are seeing the results already. It must be a great comfort to the Big 5 and their authors that rather than resorting to piracy many are apparently turning to Amazon, Indies and smaller innovative publishers.
I don't think he was referring specifically to this thread. There have been many other threads where people have expressed the that view.
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Old 02-28-2018, 11:49 AM   #99
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When I read threads like this I'm aware that maybe books are more fungible to me than others. I mean I wouldn't pirate a book simply because it wasn't available. That's unethical.

I won't even jump through the hoops needed to avoid geo restrictions. I'm not going to argue the ethics of that, simply that it's too much hassle to go through just to read a book.

At the end of the day there's always something else to read.

It's annoying if it's part of a series but even then...
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Old 02-28-2018, 05:17 PM   #100
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I don't think he was referring specifically to this thread. There have been many other threads where people have expressed the that view.
Apache
You may be right. Though I can't recall one off the top of my head a thread where the view has been expressed that there is a right to buy any book for "unreasonably low prices" or "peanuts". Though I suppose the Big 5 thought Amazon's $9.99 was unreasonably low.
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Old 02-28-2018, 05:23 PM   #101
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When I read threads like this I'm aware that maybe books are more fungible to me than others. I mean I wouldn't pirate a book simply because it wasn't available. That's unethical.

I won't even jump through the hoops needed to avoid geo restrictions. I'm not going to argue the ethics of that, simply that it's too much hassle to go through just to read a book.

At the end of the day there's always something else to read.

It's annoying if it's part of a series but even then...
I would bypass georestrictions if need be. That way the author still gets paid. It's not my fault the publisher isn't releasing the eBook where I am. The way I look at it, if there is an eBook elsewhere but not here, then I should be allowed to buy the eBook that exists without bypassing georestrictions.
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Old 02-28-2018, 06:31 PM   #102
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In terms of the Dirk Pitt series, I don't know who's fault it is that the complete series is not available in the US. But why would some be available and not the rest? It just makes some people disillusioned with eBooks or turn to the net to find them or to go shopping in another country.
This was the case of a couple of series I enjoyed. Looking at the author's web page, there are several reasons why this happens. I'm sure there are others.

1. Rights reverted to author or author's estate.
2. Rights sold to another publisher.
3. Rights had a limited shelf life and reverted to original publisher.

In these instances, I just get a copy of the book, have it scanned and convert it for use in my ereaders and move on. Of course, this is only for a handful of books where I really WANT the complete series.
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Old 02-28-2018, 06:37 PM   #103
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If the publisher who owns the ebook rights for an area, assuming it does own the rights and doesn't simply assume it has the ebook rights because it does have the paper rights, refuses to publish can't the author take those rights back and publish themselves? Of course that would mean lawyers, time and money fighting their publisher (non-publisher?)
The author can ask for the rights back and sometimes that happens. In the US, after 35 years, the rights now revert to the author in many cases. But in the case of an apparent orphaned author, chances are it will never be published again.
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Old 02-28-2018, 06:57 PM   #104
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@JSWolf @pwalker8. I suspect all Dirk Pitt ebooks are available in Australia and some other countries, probably including the UK. I checked one, Deep Six, which is not available as an ebook in the US. It is available for $A12.99 in Australia. Kobo India has it for $A7.08.

I really don't know whether the author or the publisher is to blame.
That's just what I remember from when I was trying to get the first several books in the series several years ago. Basically he was in a fight with his American publisher, which is why only a few were available. He was also in fights with several of the film companies. Looking at the books that are available and the dates, there doesn't seem to be a rhyme or reason. It looks like all save one are in Kindle format, but quite a few are not available in the US store. That tends to argue contract dispute.
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Old 02-28-2018, 08:17 PM   #105
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@pwalker8. That is regrettable for everyone concerned, Publisher, Author and Reader. Whilst we have no way of knowing the actual breakdown of what readers do in this situation, it is a pretty fair bet that a not insignificant number choose to get the books some other way. Of these, some of course will buy or borrow a paper copy. Some will electronically "travel" to a country which does have it for sale. And, of course, some will simply download a pirate copy. The latter method of obtaining copies seems to me to be the most convenient of these options, having the advantages of no cost, instant delivery and direct download of a file without drm in the format of choice. And we have seen how important convenience is with ITunes, 1-click ordering etc. Human nature being what it is, many who take this option are going to consider their actions justified and ease their conscience (if this is a problem for them) with the rationale that it is the authors/publishers fault for not making the ebook available to them for purchase. I suspect that the vast majority of those who rationalise their actions in this way would in fact have purchased the ebook if it was available, though this of course is no comfort to the authors and publishers who are not paid.

I suspect that losses due to piracy are very significant where ebooks are not available in particular regions. And even more significant where only some books in a series are available.

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