Some news about upcoming Onyx devices

[mdp]

Originally Posted by mdp

I am convinced that next is colour, but I bet on the ACEP, the "Advanced Color ePaper" - having in a single dot (cell, pixel) the pigments (like Cyan, Magenta, Yellow, blacK) required for subtractive colour synthesis. Of course, we have to wait for it to became a viable mass production possibility.

One nice note: the currently implemented technical demos are 20'' displays of 2400x1600 (I believe) at 150ppi...
In theory, we already have colour E-ink computer monitors ; )

https://www.slashgear.com/e-inks-col...lose-24441401/

[Drew22]

As a former Max Carta and present Max2 e-reader owner, it might be interesting for some of you a personal review of the strengths and weaknesses of both models.

Max Carta is a great e-reader whose positives number: the somewhat whiter background due to the missing capacitive screen layer and the consequently higher contrast, the SD card slot and the longer battery life due to the less powerful hardware. Besides you still get there the several dedicated apps for reading ebooks that you won't find on Max2 because Neo Reader2 is an universal app (for pdfs, docx and ebooks alike). On the downside, Carta is a bit slow and rarely even non-responsive, which can be annoying. Also Android 4.02 limits the external apps you can install on the device. Nonetheless the Onyx software is pretty good and in theory you don't really need third party apps, unless you also want access to Amazon or Kobo libraries. The stylus is not very accurate on the upper and lower segments of the screen.

Max2 is a significant improvement in many respects. Better hardware specs and subsequent shorter reaction times, which brings it closer to a tablet, touch screen and a way better stylus, though it slips easily from its holding, Android 6 that brings many new possibilities via third party apps, and the monitor function. The screen is only marginally darker (barely visible with the naked eye) given the touch screen layer.

On the downside worth to be mentioned are the missing sd-card slot, the placing of the on/off button at the bottom of the device (same for Max Carta), the not so great Max2 as monitor experience when watching videos (yeah, the automatic A2 mode decreases resolution, while the rendering is still rocky) despite the enthusiastic descriptions everywhere (though for reading and text editing programs it is well suited), and the somewhat shorter battery life.

All in all the Max two is very responsive and the Neo Reader2 app has new useful functions that have not been implemented yet in the same app for Max Carta. Do I regret buying such an expensive device? No. After all, people easily buy smartphones or tablets in the same or higher price category, and shouldn't complain for buying such a specialised tool, which is produced only in small numbers, therefore entailing higher costs per unit than in any smartphone model.

[mdp]

Originally Posted by Drew22

the not so great Max2 as monitor experience when watching videos (yeah, the automatic A2 mode decreases resolution, while the rendering is still rocky) despite the enthusiastic descriptions everywhere (though for reading and text editing programs it is well suited),

I don't think this sentence was very clear:
-- the Max2 as HDMI based monitor through the Onyx solution should show videos better than static content (meaning text), because text cannot be rendered well in A2;
-- the Max2 as HDMI based monitor through the Onyx solution is severely imperfect for reading and text editing, because A2 mode is inadequate for such use, and because the lack of a conservative approach to pixel change is gravely power inefficient;
-- the Max2 does not need to be used as a monitor to watch videos (use VLC etc.).

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by mdp

I am not sure that Triton - a color filter - will be the future. Not only the enormous loss of resolution is a concern, but the technology had been there for many years yet it was not made into mass market products, and this time the problem is not cost: it is with the disappointing effect. A filter causes attenuation on displays which are already not of coal on snow contrast.

I am convinced that next is colour, but I bet on the ACEP, the "Advanced Color ePaper" - having in a single dot (cell, pixel) the pigments (like Cyan, Magenta, Yellow, blacK) required for subtractive colour synthesis. Of course, we have to wait for it to became a viable mass production possibility.



The text remains hi-res because the filters multiply on black (dark grey), but applied on the whitey background the filter should make it become a darker net of coloured spots - your background, normally white but now under a grid of Red-Green-Blue-Transparent inks, would become a mixture of colours... It works with lights (R+G+B = W), but it is not natural with inks.

You need, as you have now, elements that go White-to-Cyan, White-to-Magenta, White-to-Yellow, White-to-Black, and possibly in the same cell. This simulates print. Advanced Color ePaper is implemented around this.

Having only 8 colors is a big drawback for this technology. 150 ppi is the resolution and it will soon also be the resolution of of Triton with color. LCD displays are also based on filters. I understand how the higher resolution text works and while white does need all the colors I think it seems white enough for reading purposes. These days frontlights tend to dictate the white color anyway for many users. Besides there is nothing that says the colors have to be true red, green, and blue, they can be altered slightly as you already suggest. There could be a mix of mutiple colors and filters using something from both technologies.

Dale

[mdp]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

Having only 8 colors is a big drawback for this technology

Which technology only displays 8 colours? You are not perchance making reference to that shout that's around, "Advanced Color ePaper displays all 8 primary colors"? In that case I am absolutely positive it was a badly chosen unclear formula: it should only mean "we really compose red, green and blue well out out cyan, magenta and yellow (plus black and white)". The pictures of the prototypes show the full range of colour, so I do not believe it is like the "pure white black and red" e-ink "Spectra" displays - that would hardly be a breakthrough. Advanced Color ePaper is declared capable of 32,000 composed colours - which suggests as expected, 4 bits of graduation (16 shades) by 4 inks, minus one for some reason (2^15 = 32768). The breakthrough is that you can electrically control different inks - different electrical parameters control different inks, so they can be changed individually.

Originally Posted by DaleDe

150 ppi is the resolution and it will soon also be the resolution of of Triton with color.

150 ppi is the resolution in virtual pixels after the filter is applied to the 300 ppi of the EPD screen underneath in Triton, and it may be enough for images (text as you noted may have a good effect if it is rendered as black, and all the filters are darkened enough to make the tinted grid invisible), but I would really need to see a sample to evaluate the quality of the "white" which will have that tinted grid superimposed. For that matter, it is easier for the black to conceal the filtering screen but I would still need to see also the effect on black - come on, of a real full page rendering - to be sure.

EDIT: surely Triton is not extinct, because I see E-Ink is commercializing a 31.2'' color ePaper Display (EC312TT2), Display Module Only for a cost of $2,300 plus extra. Resolution of 2560x1440, 96ppi of the actual display or 48ppi if you consider the virtual pixels to determine a color.

Originally Posted by DaleDe

LCD displays are also based on filters.

LCD displays are based on filters, but they emit light and that's a very different colour synthesis in practice.

Originally Posted by DaleDe

I think it seems white enough for reading purposes

But have you actually seen and used a real Triton? One cannot fail to notice the interesting amount of people that in these months stated they would have sacrificed the touchscreen in the Max2 to keep those few percentage points of contrast, and a tinted screen is certainly a darkener - because it's a layer, and because there's light subtractive tint on it.

Originally Posted by DaleDe

Besides there is nothing that says the colors have to be true red, green, and blue, they can be altered slightly as you already suggest. There could be a mix of mutiple colors and filters using something from both technologies.

The tinted layer I saw in the wiki shows a RG/BW grid (with apparent skewing on alternate same-colors lines), which surprised me: I thought it should have been CM/YW.

EDIT: moreover, the amount of achievable colours for the Triton is stated as 4096 (12 bits), which suggest thrichromy (4+4+4 bits of shades)...


Anyway, if they manage to implement CMYK or similar subtractive synthesis directly in the electrophoretic screen, that's the best solution I can think of. If not for the current limit, that the 2016 implementation of Advanced Color ePaper has a 2s refresh rate...

[danielteleman]

Originally Posted by Drew22

As a former Max Carta and present Max2 e-reader owner, it might be interesting for some of you a personal review of the strengths and weaknesses of both models.

Max Carta is a great e-reader whose positives number: the somewhat whiter background due to the missing capacitive screen layer and the consequently higher contrast, the SD card slot and the longer battery life due to the less powerful hardware. Besides you still get there the several dedicated apps for reading ebooks that you won't find on Max2 because Neo Reader2 is an universal app (for pdfs, docx and ebooks alike). On the downside, Carta is a bit slow and rarely even non-responsive, which can be annoying. Also Android 4.02 limits the external apps you can install on the device. Nonetheless the Onyx software is pretty good and in theory you don't really need third party apps, unless you also want access to Amazon or Kobo libraries. The stylus is not very accurate on the upper and lower segments of the screen.

Max2 is a significant improvement in many respects. Better hardware specs and subsequent shorter reaction times, which brings it closer to a tablet, touch screen and a way better stylus, though it slips easily from its holding, Android 6 that brings many new possibilities via third party apps, and the monitor function. The screen is only marginally darker (barely visible with the naked eye) given the touch screen layer.

On the downside worth to be mentioned are the missing sd-card slot, the placing of the on/off button at the bottom of the device (same for Max Carta), the not so great Max2 as monitor experience when watching videos (yeah, the automatic A2 mode decreases resolution, while the rendering is still rocky) despite the enthusiastic descriptions everywhere (though for reading and text editing programs it is well suited), and the somewhat shorter battery life.

All in all the Max two is very responsive and the Neo Reader2 app has new useful functions that have not been implemented yet in the same app for Max Carta. Do I regret buying such an expensive device? No. After all, people easily buy smartphones or tablets in the same or higher price category, and shouldn't complain for buying such a specialised tool, which is produced only in small numbers, therefore entailing higher costs per unit than in any smartphone model.

Awesome review for the ones that are still on the fence. Cheers Drew.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by mdp

But have you actually seen and used a real Triton? One cannot fail to notice the interesting amount of people that in these months stated they would have sacrificed the touchscreen in the Max2 to keep those few percentage points of contrast, and a tinted screen is certainly a darkener - because it's a layer, and because there's light subtractive tint on it.

Yes, on the old Jetbook 2. Pretty nasty, to be honest. Low-saturation washed-out colours, and very poor contrast. Not something I'd ever recommend to anyone.

[mdp]

I just fumbled by chance in a YouTube post (fresh like lettuce) by Dr. Grigor Khachatryan, signing as Assistant Professor of Piano Concordia College in Moorhead. It will probably answer to questions posed by performers, originally in this thread.

Title: 10 Reasons [why] Onyx Boox Max 2 is Perfect for Musicians

Content:

Introduction - 0:00
LCD vs E-Ink - 2:45
Reason 1 - Looks Like Paper - 3:33
Reason 2 - Up to 4 Week Battery Life - 4:38
Reason 3 - Anti-Glare Screen - 6:08
Reason 4 - Bluetooth Pedals - 6:51
Reason 5 - Large Screen - 7:55
Reason 6 - WiFi & WWW.IMSLP.ORG - 8:46
Reason 7 - Professional Image - 9:44
Reason 8 - The Pen (with no Batteries) - 11:55
Reason 9 - Silent Operation - 13:24
Reason 10 - Cool and Rare - 13:50

Have you been searching for the perfect tablet to use in your recitals? Onyx Boox Max 2 is a strong contender. Watch this video to see why it is the best tablet currently on market for professional chamber musicians, pianist and concert artists in general. I will give 10 important reasons that set this device apart from the strong competition such as the iPad Pro and the best among the Android tablets. Onyx Boox Max 2 is not to be confused with the Onyx Boox Max Carta. The two devices look extremely similar. The Max 2, or as in other countries also called Max 2 Pro is the latest version and has much more capabilities than the Onyx Boox Max Carta, however I would assume that the vast majority of the features which a concert musician is concerned with would be quite similar between the devices. Onyx Boox Max 2 can connect to many pedals through a fast Bluetooth connection and you can download scores directly to your device using the WiFi capabilities and websites such as www.imslp.org. The battery life on this device is measured in weeks and it look extremely elegant on stage. The page turns are fast and can be executed in four different ways, hands, pen, pedals and the page turn buttons on the screen. If you miss a page turn, it's most likely your fault. The viewing angles on the screen are exceptional and it is remarkable how you can use this device under direct sunlight.

[mdp]

Oops. Pls. disregard this one.

[viceant]

Does someone know whether is it feasible get one of these devices through Alibaba? I've seen Onyx Note there

Edit: aside, why on aliexpress they don't charge shipment fees if you buy a phone but they do when it's an ereader?

[gojisube]

What is the word on the Canvas? Is there a projected release date and price?

[Philippe D.]

Originally Posted by viceant

Edit: aside, why on aliexpress they don't charge shipment fees if you buy a phone but they do when it's an ereader?

It might have to do with the size of the package. I don't know what size package a phone ships in these days, but the box of the Max 2 is a rather large one. Not that heavy, but rather big.

(But I don't have an answer to your main question - I got my Max 2 through ereader.store)

[viceant]

Originally Posted by Philippe D.

It might have to do with the size of the package. I don't know what size package a phone ships in these days, but the box of the Max 2 is a rather large one. Not that heavy, but rather big.

I don't think so, cause if you order an ereader approximately the same size a phone, they charge a minimum fee but quite high.

Thanks.

[mdp]

Originally Posted by mdp

Which technology only displays 8 colours? You are not perchance making reference to that shout that's around, "Advanced Color ePaper displays all 8 primary colors"? In that case I am absolutely positive it was a badly chosen unclear formula: it should only mean "we really compose red, green and blue well out out cyan, magenta and yellow (plus black and white)". The pictures of the prototypes show the full range of colour, so I do not believe it is like the "pure white black and red" e-ink "Spectra" displays - that would hardly be a breakthrough. Advanced Color ePaper is declared capable of 32,000 composed colours - which suggests as expected, 4 bits of graduation (16 shades) by 4 inks, minus one for some reason (2^15 = 32768). The breakthrough is that you can electrically control different inks - different electrical parameters control different inks, so they can be changed individually.

Correction: an E-Ink engineer specified in a video that for Advanced Color ePaper they ditched black, and only kept cyan magenta and yellow. So there is no mistery in that asyimmetry of the 32,000 results: it's 15 bits in three even chunks, which by the way interestingly means they now can provide 32 shades instead of 16.
It's just, I am skeptical about CMY without the K. I understand one less ink to manage is a hassle less, but Cyan+Magenta+Yellow = brown to my experience...
Maybe that's why they are going for "signage". Not just the 2 seconds refresh time, but brown can replace black in a poster, not in "textbooks' paragraphs".

[norweger]

Originally Posted by viceant

Does someone know whether is it feasible get one of these devices through Alibaba? I've seen Onyx Note there

Edit: aside, why on aliexpress they don't charge shipment fees if you buy a phone but they do when it's an ereader?

Generally they tend to use EMS or another courier for heavy items, and ridiculously cheap letter mail for small packages. I have bought many items on both eBay and Aliexpress that have cost less for the actual item plus shipment as a letter with tracking, than a single stamp cost in Norway (a stamp costs 11 NOK, so 1,42 USD). The Chinese must be good negotiators with the national post services worldwide, as they quite often offer worldwide shipping for free.

But, back to the threads topic. Does anyone know when in 2018 the successor of Onyx Boox Max2 Pro will come?