Kobo Epub Compatibility? - Page 2

ZodWallop · 01-18-2018, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingmongyee

It was only the progress and time left per chapter that I noticed and appreciated with KePubs... I find them invaluable when I'm reading at a coffee shop and wondering if I should try to finish a chapter or start a new one. I don't like to stop reading mid-chapter, it's one of those things...

I use kePubs for the same reason, as I like to read on my fifteen minute breaks.

davidfor · 01-18-2018, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingmongyee

@davidfor: I understand now.

Yes, the TOC were working fine in ePubs, and as I never really used the navigation bar as I rarely skip through a book, I never found out that you could skip to the next or previous chapter. It was only the progress and time left per chapter that I noticed and appreciated with KePubs.

When reading epubs, I will use the navigation bar to skip to the next chapter to see how many pages are left in the current chapter.

Quote:

I wonder why these two options are not available with ePubs. I find them invaluable when I'm reading at a coffee shop and wondering if I should try to finish a chapter or start a new one. I don't like to stop reading mid-chapter, it's one of those things...

Completely different renderers and other support code are used for the two formats. It's probable that the libraries used for epub don't supply functions needed. But, it is also possible that Kobo decided not to implement them for epubs to give a differentiator. Or even more likely, a bit of both.

DNSB · 01-18-2018, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robko

Epubs are rendered using the Adobe software whereas Kepubs are rendered using Kobo's own software. That's why there is the difference. Can't answer to why Adobe has never added this except that they use a certain # of characters to represent a "page" so depending on your font size, a "page" may be over 1/2 a screen or 3 screens. That makes it tricky to say how many pages are left (and in fact an Adobe page could include the last part of one chapter + the 1st part of the next). Kobo has limited control over what they can change on the Adobe side.

Couple of nits. The other renderer used by Kobo was originally developed by a Japanese company. Check Google for ACCESS NetFront BookReader.

If the chapters are separated so a file equals a chapter, the Adobe synthetic page number algorithm will not carry page numbers over multiple chapters.

wingmongyee · 01-19-2018, 01:45 AM

@robko. Your explanation is very enlightening.

The only thing I didn't like with my Sony reader (apart from the lack of integrated lighting) was that the page numbering never actually matched the page on screen. As you said, a page could be half a screen or three screen depending on the font size, so I assume the Sony reader was also using Adobe software. The Kobo when using ePubs was the same so I assumed that this was a disadvantage of ebooks compared to paper books, i. e. You could never know exactly how many pages there was in an eBook due to font size variations (I never owned or used a Kindle so I just assumed the problem was the same with any eReader).

The fact that when using KePubs, the page number equals what you actually see on a page is another one of the reasons I prefer KePubs. I really like that. I didn't mention it in my previous posts because I didn't think of it until I read your post.

Often, when I speak to a friend about a book I'm reading, he will ask how many pages in the book. Before using KePubs, I could never answer him clearly, and could only give him approximate numbers. Now, I give him the exact number of pages; I just show him a page of the book with my current font size, and explain there are x pages at that size. That gives him a much more accurate idea of the size of the book.

So, one more reason to prefer KePubs over ePubs.

Cheers.

davidfor · 01-19-2018, 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingmongyee

Often, when I speak to a friend about a book I'm reading, he will ask how many pages in the book. Before using KePubs, I could never answer him clearly, and could only give him approximate numbers. Now, I give him the exact number of pages; I just show him a page of the book with my current font size, and explain there are x pages at that size. That gives him a much more accurate idea of the size of the book.

To get that number, you need to open each chapter, see how many pages are in each and add them up. Then change the font size, margins, line spacing or even the justification and do it again. You actually do that? That's going to take a fair amount of time for a 30 chapter book.

The Adobe method, used in any ereader or app that uses the Adobe RMSDK and ADE, is a fixed number for the book and is independent of the reading settings used. And consistent across all of these plus other things produce it as well (e.g. Count Pages plugin in calibre). As an approximation of the length of a book, I find it much more useful.

And I understand how the paging works, so I do understand how much time it will take me to finish a chapter from the pages left in it. Of course, I think the chapter graph in kepubs is great, and it is almost enough to convert me, but, I'm not that great a fan of the per-chapter page numbering.

JSWolf · 01-19-2018, 06:21 AM

I use ePub for it;s more stable typesetting. You do get used to ADE page numbering given your choice of settings.

chrisridd · 01-19-2018, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoffR

Kobo ePubs (AKA KePubs) are a type of ePub and can be read by any ePub reader. (Edit: Assuming they are DRM-free or have had the DRM removed.)

I'd also add that Kobo sells both ePub 2 and ePub 3 books, so your "any ePub reader" will likely need to be able to handle ePub 3.

I don't think the Kobo store says what version each book uses.

davidfor · 01-19-2018, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisridd

I don't think the Kobo store says what version each book uses.

Yes it does. Here is an example of an epub3: https://www.kobo.com/au/en/ebook/the...starter-bundle.

ZodWallop · 01-19-2018, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidfor

To get that number, you need to open each chapter, see how many pages are in each and add them up. Then change the font size, margins, line spacing or even the justification and do it again. You actually do that? That's going to take a fair amount of time for a 30 chapter book.

You could do that. Or you could go into settings and change 'Display progress for:' from 'Current chapter' to 'Entire book'

jackie_w · 01-19-2018, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

You could do that. Or you could go into settings and change 'Display progress for:' from 'Current chapter' to 'Entire book'

Not really.

If you set display progress for 'current chapter' the number of "pages" is actually number of "screenfulls" and changes as you increase/decrease font-size etc.

Whereas, if you set it to 'entire book', the total pages doesn't change if you change font-size, etc.

ZodWallop · 01-19-2018, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackie_w

Not really.

If you set display progress for 'current chapter' the number of "pages" is actually number of "screenfulls" and changes as you increase/decrease font-size etc.

Whereas, if you set it to 'entire book', the total pages doesn't change if you change font-size, etc.

I guess. I didn't know that and I'd guess wingmongyee doesn't either. It's close enough for government work.

DNSB · 01-19-2018, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

You could do that. Or you could go into settings and change 'Display progress for:' from 'Current chapter' to 'Entire book'

AFAIR, if you switch to entire book, the Adobe synthetic page number algorithm is used instead of opening every file and calculating the total pages based on screen size, font, margins, etc.

jackie_w · 01-19-2018, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DNSB

AFAIR, if you switch to entire book, the Adobe synthetic page number algorithm is used instead of opening every file and calculating the total pages based on screen size, font, margins, etc.

No, I don't believe that's true, either. Whatever the page count algorithm for kepub entire book is, it's not the same as the ADE algorithm for plain epub.

ZodWallop · 01-19-2018, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackie_w

No, I don't believe that's true, either. Whatever the page count algorithm for kepub entire book is, it's not the same as the ADE algorithm for plain epub.

Could that be related to the 'Use Adobe page numbers' option in the settings? I never understood what that did.

davidfor · 01-19-2018, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackie_w

No, I don't believe that's true, either. Whatever the page count algorithm for kepub entire book is, it's not the same as the ADE algorithm for plain epub.

I've always assumed it was the same algorithm, but possibly with a different factor than Adobe uses. With all the extra spans, it probably makes sense to use a number a little higher than 1024. But, the page count is always higher than for epubs. Of course, there are other issues such as compression ratios affecting these counts.

I might have a little play the Count Pages plugin to see a comparison between epubs and kepubs.

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01-19-2018, 01:45 AM	#19
wingmongyee Enthusiast Posts: 41 Karma: 15320 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Melbourne, Australia Device: Kobo Glo HD	@robko. Your explanation is very enlightening. The only thing I didn't like with my Sony reader (apart from the lack of integrated lighting) was that the page numbering never actually matched the page on screen. As you said, a page could be half a screen or three screen depending on the font size, so I assume the Sony reader was also using Adobe software. The Kobo when using ePubs was the same so I assumed that this was a disadvantage of ebooks compared to paper books, i. e. You could never know exactly how many pages there was in an eBook due to font size variations (I never owned or used a Kindle so I just assumed the problem was the same with any eReader). The fact that when using KePubs, the page number equals what you actually see on a page is another one of the reasons I prefer KePubs. I really like that. I didn't mention it in my previous posts because I didn't think of it until I read your post. Often, when I speak to a friend about a book I'm reading, he will ask how many pages in the book. Before using KePubs, I could never answer him clearly, and could only give him approximate numbers. Now, I give him the exact number of pages; I just show him a page of the book with my current font size, and explain there are x pages at that size. That gives him a much more accurate idea of the size of the book. So, one more reason to prefer KePubs over ePubs. Cheers.

01-19-2018, 06:21 AM	#21
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 79,771 Karma: 145864619 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	I use ePub for it;s more stable typesetting. You do get used to ADE page numbering given your choice of settings.