The Vent and Rant Thread

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Yes. If he's not fully naked, it's not a guide to everything...
______
Dennis

You sure about that?

[BetterRed]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Do you envisage a day when those treatments will not be available to the obese, either? Or people who gave themselves diabetes, due to not being able to control their food intake, or their weight?

Probably, if we want to maintain our Medicare system - which according to the polls is what a large majority want. It's Obamacare on steroids, but it's not a UK NHS clone; there are various co-payments when you see a doctor, and for prescription drugs, and private insurance is optional.

The people who have the issues you raise often can't afford private health insurance. And those who can will often end up being treated in public hospitals for anything more than a sore thumb.

I had a pacemaker replacement a few weeks ago. I was in hospital for six nights (five in a single bed room), they needed to monitor me closely for a day or two before the new one went in, and once it was in, they had to 'tune' it over a few days. It cost me zilch. A quick look at the web suggests it would have cost a private patient's insurer at least $25,000, for what, better food maybe, my visitors offered to bring that - for free

BR

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by BetterRed

Probably, if we want to maintain our Medicare system - which according to the polls is what a large majority want. It's Obamacare on steroids, but it's not a UK NHS clone; there are various co-payments when you see a doctor, and for prescription drugs, and private insurance is optional.

I don't. Given the epidemic of obesity, I can't see how the hell that would ever happen. As a former smoker, I always found it ironic--that treatment for smokers is shame-based, but, bygod, if you need treatment for adult onset diabetes, or heart issues, etc., caused primarily by obesity, well, that's just fine.

Not to mention--alcohol and tobacco are both perfectly LEGAL products, in this country. Granted, no argument--we should NOT smoke. I quit for that reason. But I find it mind-boggling that people want to shame smokers and treat them like some sort of third-rate scum, for using a legal product, while going on and on about how to better "prevent" this or that illness/disease/condition, which is also behavior-based. Smokers are not junkies in the alleyway--who are largely accepted and better-treated, from a compassion/understanding/acceptance standpoint, than [dirty] smokers.

The people who have the issues you raise often can't afford private health insurance. And those who can will often end up being treated in public hospitals for anything more than a sore thumb.

And? Ditto smokers. I don't see what you mean?

I had a pacemaker replacement a few weeks ago. I was in hospital for six nights (five in a single bed room), they needed to monitor me closely for a day or two before the new one went in, and once it was in, they had to 'tune' it over a few days. It cost me zilch. A quick look at the web suggests it would have cost a private patient's insurer at least $25,000, for what, better food maybe, my visitors offered to bring that - for free

BR

Probably more than 25K. My husband's heart attack was $125K, and he was damn sure in the hospital for less time than you--home in 3 days, despite it being a major myocardial infarction.

I suspect we shouldn't keep discussing this here, as it COULD--not necessarily would--devolve into Verboten topics. My point was just that there's a very clear societal distinction about how SOME behavior-based illnesses are perceived and treated, than others. No real difference, if you get down to it--people using/being addicted to things that are BAD for them, but not illegal--but you'd never know it, would you?

You see smokers cast out into the cold, standing on sidewalks (sometimes not even "allowed" there, which makes me laugh, given that 99% of the time, sidewalks are PUBLIC rights of way--nearly a quarter-century ago, some @$$hat tried to get me to move from the public sidewalk in front of his office building, next to a public ashtray, and I very politely smiled at him and told him to put it where the sun don't shine,,,) to have their puff, but do you see anyone grabbing a menu out of someone's hand, telling them that they can't eat what they want, where they want, when they want? Noooooo, of course not. Being excoriated? Do you see laws being passed, outlawing size X dresses or pants or jackets? No. You don't. Nobody's trying to use legal means to hound people into smaller clothing sizes, even though obesity has just as high a rate of medical treatment as smoking. But hound smokers? Sure.

It's just cognitive dissonance--one of those charming traits of people--to observe.

Hitch

[BetterRed]

@Hitch, my comments were specifically about Australia, and its health care system, not about the US or its health care system. I have no insights to offer on what will happen to the US health care system, so much has changed since I lived there, which was more years ago than I care to admit

Australians are at heart Benthamite utilitarians - the greater good for the greatest number is intuitively understood by a wide cross section. We tend to roll our eyes and sigh when Yanks and Poms trot out their Libertarian and/or Thatcherite mantras. You've probably know semi-automatic weapons are banned here. John Howard did that, he is a true-blue conservative, G.W. Bush referred to him as a 'man of steel' - I guess no one told George that that was the meaning of 'Stalin'

Incidentally I based my estimate of the costs of the pacemaker replacement, on this and similar pages.

BR

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by BetterRed

@Hitch, my comments were specifically about Australia, and its health care system, not about the US or its health care system. I have no insights to offer on what will happen to the US health care system, so much has changed since I lived there, which was more years ago than I care to admit

Yes, but the treatment of different, behavior-based illnesses is, as near as I can tell (granted, I'm making inferences from Aussie news, magazines and even TV shows), the same. Yes, you have that European "all before one" kind of mindset.

Australians are at heart Benthamite utilitarians - the greater good for the greatest number is intuitively understood by a wide cross section. We tend to roll our eyes and sigh when Yanks and Poms trot out their Libertarian and/or Thatcherite mantras.

Well, gosh, it's really nice of y'all to tolerate us poor deranged illiterates.

You've probably know semi-automatic weapons are banned here. John Howard did that, he is a true-blue conservative, G.W. Bush referred to him as a 'man of steel' - I guess no one told George that that was the meaning of 'Stalin'

That's because, like much of Europe and Canada, you actually believe that government is your friend, and there to help you. Most folks in the US don't see government that way. We inherently distrust it. Thus, we're not willing to give up the last line of defense.

HOWEVER, this now ranges dangerously close to "politics," so we should probably drop it.

Incidentally I based my estimate of the costs of the pacemaker replacement, on this and similar pages.

BR

Ah. Well, that explains it.


Hitch

[FizzyWater]

Originally Posted by Hitch

I suspect we shouldn't keep discussing this here, as it COULD--not necessarily would--devolve into Verboten topics. My point was just that there's a very clear societal distinction about how SOME behavior-based illnesses are perceived and treated, than others. No real difference, if you get down to it*--people using/being addicted to things that are BAD for them, but not illegal--but you'd never know it, would you?

*emphasis added

For what it's worth, I think it's an important difference that you can't just stop eating.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by FizzyWater

*emphasis added

For what it's worth, I think it's an important difference that you can't just stop eating.

You know, I have a close family member that has fought obesity her entire life. I've always thought that you are indeed right--you can stop smoking, you can stop drinking; you don't have to ration yourself. I've thought that being addicted to nicotine was easier to overcome than addiction to food, for that reason.

On the other hand...I think I would have liked it if I could have controlled the damage from my addiction to nicotine through exercise, as I have my entire life, to control my weight. There's something to be said for that, too. Plus, with smoking, hooch, drugs--you have to quit altogether. You do not need to (nor can) quit eating altogether; you can still enjoy your food.

Hitch

[BetterRed]

For me smoking was a habit, I smoked 20-30 unfiltered Camels a day for decades. One day I realised if I gave it up I would save enough in year to fly first-class to Vienna. So I threw the packet I had in a nearby rubbish bin. Haven't had a cigarette since and I didn't have any cravings, I've known a few people who were the same.

Never did fly first-class to Vienna, though.

In recent weeks I've lost 4 kilos, stricter diet and more exercise.

BR

[Toxaris]

There are many different reasons for being obese. Eating is the most logical one and eating can be an addiction just like smoking. Other reasons might be hormone dis-balance, certain medication and others.

I think the laws in Australia resembles the ones in the Netherlands to a certain levels. Smoking here is prohibited in a lot of locations as well. Public places, governmental buildings, restaurants, cafes, hotels, you name it. Basically your working area needs to be smoke-free. Some restaurants/cafes have a dedicated smoking room. A closed/sealed room with special equipment for removing the smoke. There is talk about also prohibiting smoking outside or at least restrict the areas as well. For example waiting lines for amusementparcs.

Now, there is a lot of debate about the health care. Of course smokers pay taxes and there are a lot of additional taxes on tobacco. Some say that smokers that the additional health care they need is covered by the additional taxes (aka the smokers), others say they cost more than the additional taxes deliver (aka the non-smokers). Both have of course statistical data to prove they are right. Basically you see the same discussion popping up for obese. There it is a little more difficult, as there might (a small percentage though) be a chance that it is caused by medical reasons. Additional taxes will be placed on unhealthy food (soda's and other fat/sugar rich product). However, healthy food is still much more expensive in a way.

Anyway, this will be a very ethical discussions and will cause a lot of debate where there are only losers to be honest. For most people it is very hard to beat an addiction, for others it is much easier. For me, I am relatively happy with our health care system. It is not cheap (we like to complain), but it is good and affordable. I do see issues for the future with the people getting older all the time and the lowering of the birth rate. That will have a negative effect on keeping it affordable.

[BetterRed]

An acquaintance was one the victims in yesterdays <whatever> attack in Melbourne. No one dead, more than a dozen injured including kids. A man drove a car into crowd crossing the street at a really busy intersection. It was a small SUV, had it been a bigger one, probably would have been fatalities.

It's always men, who often have a history of mental illness and drug addiction as was the case here.

And today, police seized 1.2 tonnes (2,246 pounds) of methamphetamine, just off a ship in WA, street value $1.04 billion.

BR

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by BetterRed

An acquaintance was one the victims in yesterdays <whatever> attack in Melbourne. No one dead, more than a dozen injured including kids. A man drove a car into crowd crossing the street at a really busy intersection. It was a small SUV, had it been a bigger one, probably would have been fatalities.

It's always men, who often have a history of mental illness and drug addiction as was the case here.

And today, police seized 1.2 tonnes (2,246 pounds) of methamphetamine, just off a ship in WA, street value $1.04 billion.

BR

Firstly, and importantly, I'm glad that your friend will be okay.

Secondly--this is bizarre--I had the strangest feeling of Deja Vu, when I read your post. Can't figure out why, but every word of it made me feel as though I'd read this exact post before. (Obviously, as that's what DV is...)

WEIRD.


Hitch

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by BetterRed

An acquaintance was one the victims in yesterdays <whatever> attack in Melbourne. No one dead, more than a dozen injured including kids. A man drove a car into crowd crossing the street at a really busy intersection. It was a small SUV, had it been a bigger one, probably would have been fatalities.

It's always men, who often have a history of mental illness and drug addiction as was the case here.

And today, police seized 1.2 tonnes (2,246 pounds) of methamphetamine, just off a ship in WA, street value $1.04 billion.

BR

Cheaper street value than I would have thought. We do tons too. 1 ton=2000 lbs.

[Hitch]

So...

You ever get into a situation, and suddenly, start looking around for that bottle that says "Drink me?" Or the piece of cake that says "eat me?" Or, hell, that white bunny with the pocketwatch?

You may all recall that of late, I've been having "fun with auditors." I labored over spreadsheets, bank account statements, yadda. Sent in a nice big packet, explaining "you can find this here, and that there..." and so on, right?

TODAY, I get a big long email, asking for things like:

• Cancelled checks, showing that we paid for our health insurance;
• monthly "statements" from Paypal/Stripe;
• Proof of payment for paying my contractors--cancelled checks, you understand.
• More proof of payment for our software services--like my customer service system, project management system, accounting system,
• and so forth.

They ALSO want the contracts between us and our customers. (As if!).

I am still sitting here, gobsmacked to realize that neither the accountant who is representing me, NOR the auditor, has a freaking CLUE about how Internet businesses operate. CLUELESS.

I mean...they want "monthly Paypal and Stripe statements." (more "as if"). I pay probably 90% of my expenses via EFT, Paypal, etc. Not with CHECKS. I most certainly didn't pay for our Health Insurance, or our software services, with CHECKS. I pay via EFT, or ongoing scheduled payments.

What's killing me is, I foresaw SOME (not remotely all) of this, and I told them, things like "if you look in the attached spreadsheet X, you'll see expenses broken out by category. Check the date, and then open the corresponding bank statement for that period, and you'll see the transaction."

I mean...I am literally sitting here envisioning running around to a bazillion different places, to get RECEIPTS for stuff that already bloody has receipts, in the form of recorded payments, ON A BANK ACCOUNT STATEMENT. I mean...how hard is it to look and see that 12 payments were made, in 12 different statements, to BCBS? (Blue Cross, Blue Shield, as an example).

I FURTHER put actual receipts, in a Dropbox, and then linked those, in an Excel sheet, to the various declared expenses.

I mean...WTF? I'm sitting here, thinking that very very shortly, I'm going to look like Telly Savalas.


Hitch, aka

[John F]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

Cheaper street value than I would have thought. We do tons too. 1 ton=2000 lbs.

Doing a Google, meth sells for $100 for 1/16 of an ounce.

$100 x 16 = $1600 for an ounce
$1600 x 16 ounces = $25,600 per pound
$25,600 x 2,246 = ~$57.5 million

How do you get such a high Street value?

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by John F

Doing a Google, meth sells for $100 for 1/16 of an ounce.

$100 x 16 = $1600 for an ounce
$1600 x 16 ounces = $25,600 per pound
$25,600 x 2,246 = ~$57.5 million

How do you get such a high Street value?

That is in the US not Australia and shows you how much I keep up with the drug trade. I just figured it would cost more than that.