The Vent and Rant Thread

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Nope, it's a MG reader (middle grade). For reasons that elude me, random words throughout the manuscript are in different (many different) fonts. So, a word like "fluffy" will be "FLUFFY" and "happy" will be "HAPPY," and so on--to the tune of at least 75-100 total different font faces.

Literally like that--3x the size, and in a different font. (sigh).

Wolfie, my sweet, I've inquired, oh-so-gently, about the licensing, but thus far, the designer hasn't deigned to return my emails.



Man, wish I'd thought of that!

Hitch

Hmmm no, just no.
Perhaps you could select all, change the size to 10, and the font to wingdings. That would make as much sense.

[Rumpelteazer]

And I have another UTI. It started on Saturday morning with urge and a weird shivery feeling. After a couple of painkillers and lunch the weird feeling disappeared and after a while the urge also disappeared. I still felt a bit off, but my period started the same day so it could have been that. Yesterday I was okay until around midnight and the urge returned. Again, not a strange thing for when I have my period. But today I still have the urge and I'm still feeling meh. So tomorrow morning I'll have to go to the doctor to get an urine sample checked. Hopefully it's bad enough that it'll show up on the quick test and I get the prescription printed so I can get the pills on the way back.

[Hitch]

Question, seriously--

Is it wrong of me to become very annoyed with prospective clients that tell me that they want to have a "bunch" of cover designers make covers for them, and then choose (and pay) only the winner?

I don't mean that they'll do it in a way that's necessarily deceptive, to the participants (OTOH, I don't know that it's not, either...)

Now, we don't offer cover design services, so...it's no skin off my nose. But for some reason, this behavior really gets up my nose. It just feels so cavalier and dismissive of these folks' work and efforts...

Whatcha think, Ranters?

Hitch

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Question, seriously--

Is it wrong of me to become very annoyed with prospective clients that tell me that they want to have a "bunch" of cover designers make covers for them, and then choose (and pay) only the winner?

I don't mean that they'll do it in a way that's necessarily deceptive, to the participants (OTOH, I don't know that it's not, either...)

Now, we don't offer cover design services, so...it's no skin off my nose. But for some reason, this behavior really gets up my nose. It just feels so cavalier and dismissive of these folks' work and efforts...

Whatcha think, Ranters?

Hitch

I don't think I would want them as clients because they might decide to do the same thing for the design.

As to the covers, that is beyond dismissive.

[badgoodDeb]

If they actually tell all the designers that, say, it's a contest, and only the winner's design will be chosen and paid for, that's okay.

If they are asking for a complete drawing as a "sample piece" and don't intend to pay anybody except the one they like, yeah, that stinks. Artists hopefully know enough to do quick sketches (little actual work) if they are asked for a sample. And to request at least 50% upfront, for complete designs.

There are web sites telling how bad this gets.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

I don't think I would want them as clients because they might decide to do the same thing for the design.

As to the covers, that is beyond dismissive.

That's sort of my thinking, which is one of the reasons we require ducats upfront.

Originally Posted by badgoodDeb

If they actually tell all the designers that, say, it's a contest, and only the winner's design will be chosen and paid for, that's okay.

If they are asking for a complete drawing as a "sample piece" and don't intend to pay anybody except the one they like, yeah, that stinks. Artists hopefully know enough to do quick sketches (little actual work) if they are asked for a sample. And to request at least 50% upfront, for complete designs.

There are web sites telling how bad this gets.

Indeed, but there are also websites that make their daily bread off of it, like 99Designs.com.

I realize that yes--if the designers understand the parameters, it's their lookout, and I tend to agree. BUT, on the other hand, it still feels...IDK, manipulative? Coercive? Scummy?

I don't know what it is. It's why I asked. Logically, if the designers all know the deal, then it shouldn't faze me. But for some reason, it bugs me and I'm having trouble clarifying it, in my own head.

Hitch

[cromag]

I think it's okay as long as everything is fully disclosed, but I don't think any really good cover designers would be interested.

If they really want to do it that way, they might want to talk to an art instructor at a local community college or vo-tech school. Of course the teachers might not be enthusiastic about having their students involved in this sort of contest, either.

[cromag]

Originally Posted by Hitch

...
I don't know what it is. It's why I asked. Logically, if the designers all know the deal, then it shouldn't faze me. But for some reason, it bugs me and I'm having trouble clarifying it, in my own head.

Hitch

I'd say cheap and demeaning.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Is it wrong of me to become very annoyed with prospective clients that tell me that they want to have a "bunch" of cover designers make covers for them, and then choose (and pay) only the winner?

Unless they tell the designers they are soliciting from it's a contest and they pay the winner, it's dead wrong.

But if they do, they deserve what they get. Designing effective covers is work, and it's the sort of thing designers expect to be paid for. What they will get will be something tossed off quick as a throwaway.

Back when I was a designer, I learned to submit two suggested layouts, and let the client pick the one I preferred. Offer three, and guaranteed the one the client picked would be the one I liked least.

But what I submitted was a rough, not a completed work usable as was. That happened after the client selected one.

In this case, I think they are expecting to receive completed designs, so the designers are working on spec, putting time and effort into something that probably won't get used and paid for, and spending time that might have gone to paying work instead. That will not produce the designer's best quality work.

I don't mean that they'll do it in a way that's necessarily deceptive, to the participants (OTOH, I don't know that it's not, either...)

See above.

Now, we don't offer cover design services, so...it's no skin off my nose. But for some reason, this behavior really gets up my nose. It just feels so cavalier and dismissive of these folks' work and efforts...

Whatcha think, Ranters?

That they are cheap SOBs who want something for nothing, and only their time is important and worth paying for?

These folks sound like the kind of clients you want to fend off, as they will wind up nickle-and-diming you to death too.

(I saw a thread elsewhere from a chap who discovered a service that let him chose from many samples, and mix and match parts to get a cover he wanted, cheap. What he wound up using as the final cover was what you would expect, utterly mediocre and totally incapable of standing out from the crowd in any display. The two good things that might be said about it was that it was at least related to the book, and it was cheap.)

If the four possible choice for a cover are:

1. The author designs their own

2. The author picks one from a catalog

3. The author asks for suggestions from designers and buys the cheapest

4. The book doesn't have a cover

the best option might be 4...
_______
Dennis

[Rumpelteazer]

And the UTI is confirmed. I've already got my pills, last time they started to work within hours of taking the first one. Hopefully they'll kick in as quickly now. I've noticed that the colder the environment I'm in the worse the urge gets.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by cromag

I'd say cheap and demeaning.

Yes, I think that's really it. It bugs me that he thinks so little of the time of the designers, that it's okay to waste X-1's time in doing this, 1 being the 1 artist who will "win."

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Unless they tell the designers they are soliciting from it's a contest and they pay the winner, it's dead wrong.

But if they do, they deserve what they get. Designing effective covers is work, and it's the sort of thing designers expect to be paid for. What they will get will be something tossed off quick as a throwaway.

Back when I was a designer, I learned to submit two suggested layouts, and let the client pick the one I preferred. Offer three, and guaranteed the one the client picked would be the one I liked least.

But what I submitted was a rough, not a completed work usable as was. That happened after the client selected one.

In this case, I think they are expecting to receive completed designs, so the designers are working on spec, putting time and effort into something that probably won't get used and paid for, and spending time that might have gone to paying work instead. That will not produce the designer's best quality work.

Agreed. With all the cheap labor out there, he'll probably find something, but...still chaps my a$$ for some reason.

That they are cheap SOBs who want something for nothing, and only their time is important and worth paying for?

These folks sound like the kind of clients you want to fend off, as they will wind up nickle-and-diming you to death too.

True.

(I saw a thread elsewhere from a chap who discovered a service that let him chose from many samples, and mix and match parts to get a cover he wanted, cheap. What he wound up using as the final cover was what you would expect, utterly mediocre and totally incapable of standing out from the crowd in any display. The two good things that might be said about it was that it was at least related to the book, and it was cheap.)

I must confess, I don't think I've ever seen a site like that. Not that that means bupkus, of course. But I can see how, like all "too many cooks" scenarios, yeah, it'll be crap. It's like the dreaded psuedohumans that we see all the time at Lousybookcovers.com .

If the four possible choice for a cover are:

1. The author designs their own

2. The author picks one from a catalog

3. The author asks for suggestions from designers and buys the cheapest

4. The book doesn't have a cover

the best option might be 4...
_______
Dennis

I dunno, those generic browny-green covers from Amazon are PRETTY BAD. Honestly, I think that most authors could do "okay" with a pre-made. If you go to the right place, the designer nukes the pre-made from his stock, after it's bought, and while it's not "custom" designed, it's individually designed. They're not awful, at least, the ones I refer people over to, are not. I guess that's your option 2, from a catalogue, but...still. Better than the tons of crap I've seen.

Oh, well...it's almost my annual week off, and OMG, do I need it.

Hitch

[BetterRed]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Oh, well...it's almost my annual week off, and OMG, do I need it.

Bang on your manager's desk demanding more holidays, if your demands are not met forthwith then threaten to quit, or call in the union.

Re the cover design 'competition', it's a sign of the times, the zeitgeist of the 'gig' economy plus the culture of 'free'.

But does cover design really count for much in the ebook-world in terms of sales. I appreciate how one might be attracted to pick up a book in a bricks and mortar bookshop based on the cover design, but not at on-line sites like Amazon, Google, Apple etc. Can't recall where (maybe here), but I read recently of a book that sold upwards of 10,000 copies in e-book form, but only a few hundred paper copies.

---

My cardio guy changed all my meds yesterday, just a few days after I bought a months supply of the previous lot. He told me to take ¾ of a tablet of the new beta blocker for a week - luckily the tablets are quite large, so it is easy to do that; last time I had break tablets they were tiny and as hard as granite.

Tossing the old meds out wasn't a big deal, for most meds our federal government is the single buyer, so they are relatively cheap, no more than ~$AUD40 for most folks, ~AUD7.00 for 'oldies, disabled, etc. Big Pharma hates it of course, like Big Tobacco hate our anti-smoking laws.

Have to see him again in Feb. If the new meds don't lessen the AF he says he'll ablate the nerves in upper heart chambers and use a pacemaker (not sure if he means the one already installed) to take over their function full-time - bionic man

BR

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by BetterRed

Bang on your manager's desk demanding more holidays, if your demands are not met forthwith then threaten to quit, or call in the union.

Re the cover design 'competition', it's a sign of the times, the zeitgeist of the 'gig' economy plus the culture of 'free'.

But does cover design really count for much in the ebook-world in terms of sales. I appreciate how one might be attracted to pick up a book in a bricks and mortar bookshop based on the cover design, but not at on-line sites like Amazon, Google, Apple etc. Can't recall where (maybe here), but I read recently of a book that sold upwards of 10,000 copies in e-book form, but only a few hundred paper copies.

---

My cardio guy changed all my meds yesterday, just a few days after I bought a months supply of the previous lot. He told me to take ¾ of a tablet of the new beta blocker for a week - luckily the tablets are quite large, so it is easy to do that; last time I had break tablets they were tiny and as hard as granite.

Tossing the old meds out wasn't a big deal, for most meds our federal government is the single buyer, so they are relatively cheap, no more than ~$AUD40 for most folks, ~AUD7.00 for 'oldies, disabled, etc. Big Pharma hates it of course, like Big Tobacco hate our anti-smoking laws.

Have to see him again in Feb. If the new meds don't lessen the AF he says he'll ablate the nerves in upper heart chambers and use a pacemaker (not sure if he means the one already installed) to take over their function full-time - bionic man

BR

Curious about your anti-smoking laws.
Here most restaurants are non-smoking. One is smoking but it is attached to a bar.
All public buildings are non-smoking.
For good or bad, the casinos in the state beside us and the state above us are smoking.

[cromag]

A minor rant, as rants go, but I found it remarkably annoying.

We had a big housefly celebrating a day of springtime weather in winter. He took a dive into my tea and passed away. I found him on my next sip.

I'm drinking from one of my back-up mugs now.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by cromag

A minor rant, as rants go, but I found it remarkably annoying.

We had a big housefly celebrating a day of springtime weather in winter. He took a dive into my tea and passed away. I found him on my next sip.

I'm drinking from one of my back-up mugs now.

You cooked Herman. After he made the long journey to see you.
Fly killer