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Old 12-07-2017, 02:48 PM   #46
ZodWallop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitch View Post
Yes, of course. I simply meant that while some of us--some of the more-pedantic amongst us--might stick with the idea that "epic" fantasy means just that, the dictionary definition (so to speak) including elves, dwarves, trolls, magical objects, swords and sword-fighting, magic generally, and all that, the fantasy genre has broadened widely over the years since Tolkien gave us LOTR. I mean, the first thing most people would think of, as someone here said, is the SOS (Sword of Shannara) and Shannara series, as those are, let's say, "homages" to LOTR. Less so as the series goes on, of course. But you have the basic Hero's Journey, plus all of the aforementioned elements--lions and tigers and bears, oh my.

But is that all there is? (Not to say that's limited) If we knew what elements of EF appealed to him, perhaps we could make other recommendations. That's all.

HOWEVER, everybody here has pretty much recommended what I would have, (within the stricture of EF), so...I'll shaddup. ;-)

Hitch
Though I recommended the Dragonlance and Landover books, which owe a huge debt to Tolkien, there were also recommendations for the Sunset Warrior and Conan books, which are wildly different types of fantasy. There's diversity here. If the OP does check back in, there's likely something here worth reading that will fit is so far undescribed tastes.

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Old 12-07-2017, 02:51 PM   #47
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It's funny. There was another thread looking for fantasy that would expand their literary horizons then there's this one looking for lots of action. Though they don't have to be, those feel mutually exclusive to me.

For better or worse, 'Lots of action' translated in my mind to schlocky fun. 'Expanding literary horizons' meant mid-to-highbrow reading.
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Old 12-07-2017, 04:30 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza_Cant_Read View Post
By most definitions an epic fantasy is world building and descriptive.
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Originally Posted by Hitch View Post
Yes, of course. I simply meant that while some of us--some of the more-pedantic amongst us--might stick with the idea that "epic" fantasy means just that, the dictionary definition (so to speak) including elves, dwarves, trolls, magical objects, swords and sword-fighting, magic generally, and all that, the fantasy genre has broadened widely over the years since Tolkien gave us LOTR.
This is interesting, it seems my definition of epic fantasy has little or no overlap with either of yours To me, epic fantasy has huge stakes -- the fate of nations, or even worlds, hang in the balance. So by that definition, The Hobbit isn't epic, but Lord of the Rings is.
(Unless I remember wrong - warning - spoiler for The Hobbit following:
Spoiler:
As far as I remember, that battle at the end of the book isn't a huge changing-the-fate-of-nations type of battle. If I remember wrong, I guess that might tip it over into epic-ness.
)
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Old 12-07-2017, 04:35 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by ZodWallop View Post
It's funny. There was another thread looking for fantasy that would expand their literary horizons then there's this one looking for lots of action. Though they don't have to be, those feel mutually exclusive to me.

For better or worse, 'Lots of action' translated in my mind to schlocky fun. 'Expanding literary horizons' meant mid-to-highbrow reading.
I felt the same way.

I looked at expanding one's literary horizons as stuff that would border on the philosophical side of things much more than the gritty, action side of things.
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Old 12-07-2017, 05:14 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hildea View Post
This is interesting, it seems my definition of epic fantasy has little or no overlap with either of yours To me, epic fantasy has huge stakes -- the fate of nations, or even worlds, hang in the balance. So by that definition, The Hobbit isn't epic, but Lord of the Rings is.
(Unless I remember wrong - warning - spoiler for The Hobbit following:
Spoiler:
As far as I remember, that battle at the end of the book isn't a huge changing-the-fate-of-nations type of battle. If I remember wrong, I guess that might tip it over into epic-ness.
)
Well, if you look at Lloyd Alexander's (coined) definition, along with other kibitzers, basically, the only requirement is that it's set in an entirely different world (as in, not an alternative fictional world, like Harry Dresden or the like), and it's the Hero's Journey, nothing more nor less. There does not seem to be a requirement for "save the world" or high stakes, per se. The concepts of good and evil, etc., play a part, which allegedly sets it apart from "mere" sword and sorcery. Apparently, RPG's may classify as HF.

If the OP wants battles/action, then S&S may be what he wants. If he wants the hero's journey, that's not tied to epic fantasy, or any specific genre of book. You can get that as readily in Dune as you can in TLOTR.

However, as I said, there doesn't seem to be any requirement for "save the planet" type stuff. Just your basic good-versus-evil plotline and the ubiquitous (usually male, ahem) character that's "the One."

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Old 12-07-2017, 05:24 PM   #51
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The traditional "definitions" for High, Low, and Epic Fantasy never made a lick of sense to me.
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Old 12-07-2017, 05:35 PM   #52
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Quote:
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The traditional "definitions" for High, Low, and Epic Fantasy never made a lick of sense to me.
Hi:

Not particularly to me, either; plus, those words get thrown around a lot. I mean, "High Concept" means basically the opposite--a plotline that a dummy can understand, right? e.g., "Snakes on a plane." What's "high" about that? Understandable by the least-gifted mind? I mean....sheesh.

Nonetheless, the OP did use it, so....


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Old 12-07-2017, 05:37 PM   #53
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I really liked the Inheretance Cycle by Christopher Paolini. The movie sucked but i liked the theme so I read the books. The books are so much better. Its obvious in the first book he was a first time writer but never the less my favoriate series to date
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Old 12-07-2017, 06:47 PM   #54
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Quote:
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The traditional "definitions" for High, Low, and Epic Fantasy never made a lick of sense to me.
I never had a problem with High, Low, and Epic Fantasy. That probably means I misunderstood them.

High - Tolkien and the many rip-offs. Elves, Dwarves and the like
Low - Conan, Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser. Swords and Sorcery
Epic - Large cast of characters. The world is at stake

Epic Fantasy is almost always High Fantasy, but High Fantasy need not be Epic (The Hobbit, for instance)
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Old 12-07-2017, 06:54 PM   #55
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So ... they're all the same thing then?
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Old 12-07-2017, 07:16 PM   #56
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So ... they're all the same thing then?
If you're going by my understanding of the definitions, no.

Low Fantasy tends to not have dwarves, elves and the rest. Just humans. Magic is murky, mysterious and dangerous.

Look at me replying all serious to your joke post
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Old 12-07-2017, 07:25 PM   #57
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The traditional "definitions" for High, Low, and Epic Fantasy never made a lick of sense to me.
One difference can be setting. High fantasy may be an alternative world or one completely fictitious. Low would be minimal magical elements in the real world.

Examples of high fantasy would be Game of Thrones, The Hobbit, How to Train Your Dragon

Low fantasy can be True Blood, Buffy, The Vampire Slayer, I Dream of Jeannie
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Old 12-07-2017, 07:45 PM   #58
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One difference can be setting. High fantasy may be an alternative world or one completely fictitious. Low would be minimal magical elements in the real world.

Examples of high fantasy would be Game of Thrones, The Hobbit, How to Train Your Dragon

Low fantasy can be True Blood, Buffy, The Vampire Slayer, I Dream of Jeannie
Now see, everything I've heard would put Game of Thrones squarely in the Low Fantasy camp.

I guess I've always been hung up on the terms themselves. Why "High," or why "Low"? Uptown/downtown? High Falutin? Low Born/High Born? Low Country Boil? High Cockalorum?

What about mega-magic set in the real world, or no magic in set in a fictitious world? What about elves and dwarves set in our "real" world? Epic sword & sorcery with elves, dwarves and gnomes with the fate of the real world at stake? Is there Medium/Middle Fantasy?

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Old 12-07-2017, 07:55 PM   #59
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Another really good recommendation is the Chronicles of Narnia series by C. S. Lewis.

Chronicles of Narnia
1. The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe
2. Prince Caspian
3. The Voyage of the Dawn Treader
4. The Silver Chair
5. The Horse and his Boy
6. The Magician's Nephew
7. The Last Battle
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Old 12-07-2017, 08:06 PM   #60
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What about mega-magic set in the real world, or no magic in set in a fictitious world? What about elves and dwarves set in our "real" world? Epic sword & sorcery with elves, dwarves and gnomes with the fate of the real world at stake? Is there Medium/Middle Fantasy?
Most of what you describe probably would be toward the high range if one uses the definition of low fantasy as minimal magical elements in a real world setting that uses natural laws and physics.
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