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Old 12-07-2017, 05:08 PM   #91
Nabeel
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Old 12-08-2017, 04:07 AM   #92
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I've read quite a lot with female leads of late, but that's mainly because I've been on an Urban Fantasy splurge whose protagonists appear to be either Harry Dresden or women in jeans and a tank top.
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Old 12-11-2017, 03:52 PM   #93
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I agree with most of the others here, the most important thing is that a character is well written. There are lots of both men and women among my favourite characters.

Thinking over my favourite authors, I find that most of them are women. I'm also somewhat more willing to take a chance on an unkown author -- buying a book based on just one review or a tempting blurb -- if she's a woman. This is mainly because there are a couple of ways to write women badly that I've seen far more often from men than from women:
  • Where have all the women gone? Ie. almost no female characters. Any character who could be either a man or a woman just happens to be a man.
  • Narrative voice or woman's internal dialogue describes her sexy body, in situations where it's alien and irrelevant. For instance woman walking while thinking about politics, and the author takes the time to describe how her breasts move.
This comes not just from inexperienced and/or blatantly sexist authors -- I've come across this in authors who are otherwise great, and who are outspoken feminists. (Patrick Rothfuss and GRR Martin spring to mind.)

These aren't the only criteria I care about in books, of course. But all other kinds of good and bad writing habits seem to be distributed equally among men and women, at least as far as I've noticed.
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Old 12-11-2017, 03:57 PM   #94
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Narrative voice or woman's internal dialogue describes her sexy body, in situations where it's alien and irrelevant. For instance woman walking while thinking about politics, and the author takes the time to describe how her breasts move.
Considering the news lately, maybe the author's just being realistic
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Old 12-11-2017, 04:02 PM   #95
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Considering the news lately, maybe the author's just being realistic
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Old 12-11-2017, 04:04 PM   #96
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Is that something like the seven stages of grief?
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Old 12-11-2017, 04:09 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by hildea View Post
Narrative voice or woman's internal dialogue describes her sexy body, in situations where it's alien and irrelevant. For instance woman walking while thinking about politics, and the author takes the time to describe how her breasts move.
Over the years, I've intended to read Friday, by Robert Heinlein. But then I also believe the book is full of what you just described. Have never decided to commit to it.
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Old 12-11-2017, 04:10 PM   #98
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Is that something like the seven stages of grief?
No. It was the most coherent response I could come up with to your post.
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Old 12-11-2017, 04:24 PM   #99
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No. It was the most coherent response I could come up with to your post.
Right on. I just read politics and an author having inappropriate thoughts about their female character and it all clicked.
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Old 12-29-2017, 09:53 AM   #100
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I don't care either way but I cannot stand a weak female lead. She needs to be strong or at the very least start off weak and become an incredible source of strength and wit.
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Old 12-29-2017, 11:26 AM   #101
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I though Peter Hoeg did a decent job of a female lead in Miss Smilla's Feeling for Snow. I liked Diziet Sma in Bank's Use of Weapons.
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Old 01-01-2018, 08:29 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by ZodWallop View Post
Over the years, I've intended to read Friday, by Robert Heinlein. But then I also believe the book is full of what you just described. Have never decided to commit to it.


Obviously, a cover designed by a male.

Some 1-and-5-star quotes:

1 = "This book is sick. No plot, lots of sex, some torture (fortunately missing breasts can be regrown) etc. Disgusting."

5 = "I loved Friday the first time I read it in 1982 and like a fine wine it has improved in my perception with age."


This is one I somehow never got around to reading, and I've read almost all of Heinlein's work.

I think I'll give this one a try and see just how good and/or bad it is. As my Drill Sergeant used to say as he yelled into my face - endlessly - and with his nose practically touching my nose while I waited in line to eat: "[Dr. Drib] DO YOU KNOW THAT EVERYTHING YOU EAT TURNS TO [EDITED]?"

Now purchased from Amazon.
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Old 01-01-2018, 11:36 PM   #103
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I think at some point Heinlein must have gotten old and had to rely on sexual fantasies and his books became heavily influenced by them. I think that was first true in "Time Enough for Love", even though that was an excellent book, maybe his best. By the time he wrote "Friday" I think maybe that was about all he had left.

It wasn't a bad book but I don't think Heinlein was really the same by then. I didn't read any of his later books. That's okay though. He wrote enough really good books before he got strange.

Barry
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Old 01-02-2018, 12:10 AM   #104
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I think at some point Heinlein must have gotten old and had to rely on sexual fantasies and his books became heavily influenced by them. I think that was first true in "Time Enough for Love", even though that was an excellent book, maybe his best. By the time he wrote "Friday" I think maybe that was about all he had left.

It wasn't a bad book but I don't think Heinlein was really the same by then. I didn't read any of his later books. That's okay though. He wrote enough really good books before he got strange.

Barry
I thought RAH started down that route back in the 60's with "Stranger in a Strange Land". Then we move on to Farnham's Freehold. Perhaps it started even earlier in Starship Troopers -- there seemed to be quite a bit of concern about the difference between the sexes. Hmmm... what was that quote about wart hogs? "No doubt a gentleman wart hog feels the same way about a lady wart hog—but, if so, both of us are very sincere."

"That's what a sexual union should be. But that's what I slowly grokked it rarely was. Instead it was indifference and acts mechanically performed and rape and seduction as a game no better than roulette but less honest and prostitution and celibacy by choice and by no choice and fear and guilt and hatred and violence and children brought up to think that sex was 'bad' and 'shameful' and 'animal' and something to be hidden and always distrusted. This lovely perfect thing, male-femaleness, turned upside down and inside out and made horrible" -- Michael Valentine Smith, Stranger in a Strange Land
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Old 01-02-2018, 10:07 AM   #105
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He wrote enough really good books before he got strange.
What are his really good books? I love Asimov and Clarke, but Heinlein is one of the Big Three that I just could never get into.

I've read Tunnel in the Sky, The Man Who Sold the Moon and Orphans of the Sky. They were okay. But nothing outstanding to me.

I've heard Stranger in a Strange Land, Starship Troopers, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress and maybe Door Into Summer are better places to start.

I've researched the hell out of RAH and his books. Just haven't become a fan yet.
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