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Old 12-06-2017, 11:41 PM   #16
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I read an article about the advantages of plexiglass over glass in certain situations probably 30 or 40 years ago. I don't recall the situations it referred to but I do remember that plexiglass allowed 90 times as much light to pass as does glass...

...Please don't take any of this as decisive. It's just a reason to wonder about assumptions.
Have had quite a bit to do with glass, acrylic and polycarbonate, mainly for marine hatches and windows. So -

In fact clear acrylic (e.g. Plexiglass, Perspex) transmits only about 2% more light than clear glass does - it varies slightly according to the glass. It has never been "90 times as much" .

The other common similar plastic polycarbonate (e.g. Lexan) transmits about the same as glass. It is generally softer than acrylic so scratches more easily and is less resistant to UV.
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Old 12-07-2017, 12:39 AM   #17
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I read an article about the advantages of plexiglass over glass in certain situations probably 30 or 40 years ago. I don't recall the situations it referred to but I do remember that plexiglass allowed 90 times as much light to pass as does glass. Plexiglass is, of course, plastic.

This information may be very out of date by now. Probably it is. And there's no reason to think the glass still suffers that same limitation or that the plastics today have anything in common with plexiglass of those days. Still, that does make me think it's not just automatic that glass lets more light through.

Please don't take any of this as decisive. It's just a reason to wonder about assumptions.

Barry
I don't know. But I do remember professional reviews of the Voyage (Engadget, c|net) mentioned the Voyage having a noticeably sharper, more contrast-y display than the Paperwhite that used the same screen.
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Old 12-07-2017, 05:19 AM   #18
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Hi all, slightly off the topic here, but spotted the deal a few days ago and was thinking of picking up one of the legacy Kindle models. Currently, I read on a phone and tablet with Moon Reader and sometimes use Ivona TTS. Wondering if any one can speak to the text to speech quality on these units, and general jailbreakability. Ive read mixed information on the quality and ease of use of the TTS features. That is, which old Kindle would be most recommended for someone that might want to make use of TTS and possibly tinker around, sideload fonts and such, down the road?

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Old 12-07-2017, 05:21 AM   #19
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The TTS on the old Kindles is nowhere near as good as Ivona. I'm sure you can find some Youtube videos that will allow you to hear it, if you search.
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Old 12-07-2017, 06:03 AM   #20
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Thanks much for your reply. It seems that's the consensus on Kindle TTS. Is there a spreadsheet or list of the Kindle series features and jailbreak capability on the boards or elsewhere? The vague naming convention gets a little confusing.
Overall, which of the refurbished Kindles would be most recommended? It appears the Kindle Keyboard is sold out.
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The TTS on the old Kindles is nowhere near as good as Ivona. I'm sure you can find some Youtube videos that will allow you to hear it, if you search.
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Old 12-07-2017, 06:48 AM   #21
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Thanks much for your reply. It seems that's the consensus on Kindle TTS. Is there a spreadsheet or list of the Kindle series features and jailbreak capability on the boards or elsewhere? The vague naming convention gets a little confusing.
Overall, which of the refurbished Kindles would be most recommended? It appears the Kindle Keyboard is sold out.
Of those available on Woot, the only one (currently) with TTS (plus speakers and a headphone jack) is the Kindle Touch (the Kindle Keyboard also has these features, maybe Woot will get them back again). Unlike the Kindle Keyboard, the Kindle Touch can also use the non-jailbreak USE_ALT_FONTS hack for adding fonts (just a matter of creating a fonts folder and adding a blank file USE_ALT_FONTS in the root). Once you've installed the hack you can copy True Type fonts directly into the fonts (or font?) folder, restart the Kindle and they'll show up in the font menu. The Kindle Touch offered on Woot also has 3G, so you can download books wherever you have AT&T cell phone service, (or also use WiFi). I think the Touch can also be jailbroken, so that gives you all kinds of possibilities.

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Old 12-07-2017, 07:24 AM   #22
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I've done that on my Kindle 8th Generation, but the fonts are still duller than the K3s or K4s, even thought they're nicer fonts. There's a limit to how dark you make them without making the fonts look like blobs. (I realize the Kindle Basic - 8 - isn't quite as refined as the Kobos here, but the principle was the same when I had my Kobo Glo. Although I'm sure 300 ppi would help.)
I never compared the Kindle Touch to my nook STR, but I did compare it to my Sony 650 & T1 and the Sony outperformed the nook STR for fonts. With the same font on the nook and on both Sony, the Sonys looked noticeably better. The font engine used on the nook STR is rubbish.

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When I bought my first Kindle, a Kindle Touch, I gave it away because the fonts were so much lighter then my Nook Simple Touch. I only like the Kindle Touch now because of the USE_ALT_FONTS hack and the Constantia font – that someone (you?) tuned specifically for eReaders. I would love to get that font into my 8th generation Kindle.
The font I modified for eInk is Charis SIL. The current version is now called ChareInk and it looks quite nice on a T1, H2O, and PW3. I've not seen it on any other Reader. Plus, on the PW3, you don't get such a large line height as you do on the system fonts.
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Old 12-07-2017, 09:12 AM   #23
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The H2O screen feels further away. The K3 e-ink looks like it's just about on the surface (as in a book) and it's just sitting there. I'm thinking that the combination of the touch and light layers in the H2O means that the e-ink really is further from the top of the screen, and I am somehow seeing this.
This is why I'm sticking with my Voyage. I haven't seen anything else that makes the text look so close to the surface, like it was on my old KK (I think one of the Kobo readers was pretty good in this respect too, but can't remember which). In saying that, I wouldn't go back to a non-lighted ereader. I quite like the PagePress Sensors, very different to the buttons on the KK, but I still use them more than I tap the screen to turn a page.
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Old 12-07-2017, 12:39 PM   #24
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...the Kindle Touch can also use the non-jailbreak USE_ALT_FONTS hack for adding fonts (just a matter of creating a fonts folder and adding a blank file USE_ALT_FONTS in the root).
I wish all e-ink readers would make it as easy to sideload fonts as Kobo does. Even if it wasn't officially supported like the old Kindles. There is clearly a subset of people that want to be able to do this and those people also tend to spend the most time with their e-reader. Seems like a win/win.
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Old 12-07-2017, 01:03 PM   #25
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I never compared the Kindle Touch to my nook STR, but I did compare it to my Sony 650 & T1 and the Sony outperformed the nook STR for fonts. With the same font on the nook and on both Sony, the Sonys looked noticeably better. The font engine used on the nook STR is rubbish.
I think it must partly depend on your eyes. My problem with the Kindle Touch was not the shape of the fonts but how light they were. Not enough contrast for me. I was frustrated that the ads were nice and dark and contrasty and the fonts were almost gray. But the Constantia font changed that. It's the only one I use on the Kindle Touch. As for the Sony (I've got the T2) I have grown to like its fonts. I just finished a history book on it and now about half way through a novel I borrowed from the library – so I'm getting to like the T2 quite a bit.

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The font I modified for eInk is Charis SIL. The current version is now called ChareInk and it looks quite nice on a T1, H2O, and PW3. I've not seen it on any other Reader. Plus, on the PW3, you don't get such a large line height as you do on the system fonts.
I'll have to take a look at it. Thanks. That's partly why I like Constantia. The font seems more "vertical" and less cramped.
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Old 12-07-2017, 01:09 PM   #26
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I wish all e-ink readers would make it as easy to sideload fonts as Kobo does. Even if it wasn't officially supported like the old Kindles. There is clearly a subset of people that want to be able to do this and those people also tend to spend the most time with their e-reader. Seems like a win/win.
On the NST, Kindle Keyboard and K4, I never really cared because the built-in fonts were dark enough and easy to read. The Kindle Touch (at least for my eyes) seemed to have fonts that were not quite dark enough. I feel the same about the 8th generation Kindle Basic. Now you can make the fonts darker with the bold setting, but you lose the finer lines. (I use Palatino at Bold Setting 2 and it works pretty well.)
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Old 12-07-2017, 02:22 PM   #27
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On the NST, Kindle Keyboard and K4, I never really cared because the built-in fonts were dark enough and easy to read. The Kindle Touch (at least for my eyes) seemed to have fonts that were not quite dark enough. I feel the same about the 8th generation Kindle Basic. Now you can make the fonts darker with the bold setting, but you lose the finer lines. (I use Palatino at Bold Setting 2 and it works pretty well.)
Yeah, we're talking about two different things, though they are related.

If the included fonts are too light, it's nice to be able to add a font that is heavier like the one wolf mentioned.

Regardless of the contrast, there are people that want to add fonts because they want to.

Either way, being able to add custom fonts (for those that want to do it) seems like it would be an easy enough thing to support.
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Old 12-07-2017, 02:34 PM   #28
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I’ve no idea if I’m correct, but I’ve always had the belief that Amazon limited end-user options to keep it simple, and reduce the need to contact their Kindle CS.

I remember people talking about the option to add your own picture as a sleep screen image on the 1st gen Kindle, then removing that option in future devices, due to too many support calls when users couldn’t figure out resolutions etc. for good results.

The more simple and less techy they keep the Kindles, the easier for low tech folks to use.
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Old 12-07-2017, 02:48 PM   #29
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I’ve no idea if I’m correct, but I’ve always had the belief that Amazon limited end-user options to keep it simple, and reduce the need to contact their Kindle CS.

I remember people talking about the option to add your own picture as a sleep screen image on the 1st gen Kindle, then removing that option in future devices, due to too many support calls when users couldn’t figure out resolutions etc. for good results.

The more simple and less techy they keep the Kindles, the easier for low tech folks to use.
You remember correctly.
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Old 12-07-2017, 02:55 PM   #30
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You remember correctly.
IMO, average users here on MR are not representative of the many low tech users who buy Kindles. Folks here lean strongly to the type of user who loves to keep learning, and those who love to tinker with their techie toys.

I spent a lot of time on the now defunct Kindle forums, and believe me, the majority of those users were not high end techie users.
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