EU Piracy Report

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Minor nit 1: concerns restrictions on the selling of physical books. A buyer has broken no rules (legal or moral) by asking the seller to sell them a book under that scenario (provided there is no attempt to hide/obfuscate their location)... regardless of the outcome.

Minor nit 2: the seller has made their position clear. As they should. Your daughter's workaround to the problem involved no deception, lie or law/agreement-breaking. Nor did it require the seller to violate their agreement/contract with publishers. Yay for legal and moral workarounds.

But like many other situations, comparing physical books to ebooks rarely yields relevant discussion. There is no similar workaround for buying a copyrighted, geo-restricted ebook without deception or piracy.

Like issybird, I'm not interested in policing the internet. If people are OK with lying to get what they want, then so be it. But I'm not obligated to buy their justifications/excuses/reasons for why they believe their deceptions should get a free pass from being considered immoral.

I hate geo-restrictions as much the next person. Just not enough to lie to get around them.

The second is not entirely accurate. One simply uses the same work around as for the physical work around. Have a friend who lives in the correct location, buy the book for you.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

The second is not entirely accurate. One simply uses the same work around as for the physical work around. Have a friend who lives in the correct location, buy the book for you.

One difference is that you can give a physical book away or re-sell it under the doctrine of exhaustion for Canadians, right of first sale doctrine for Americans and similar legalese in most other jurisdictions. Most ebooks are licensed under restrictions which preclude transferring the license. A few years back, I asked about downloading an .acsm file and sending that file to another person so the ebook was never actually in my possession. The response was that while not technically violating copyright or license terms since the ebook was never transferred to my computer, I would (somehow) be violating the author's moral rights. I had to admire the response to my query about exactly what constituted a moral right -- Terry Pratchett would have loved it.

[darryl]

My personal view, and it is only that, my personal view, is that avoiding geo-restrictions by "lying" about ones address is not immoral. I have no problem with those who have a contrary view. Of course, some of those who scruples about lying no doubt avoid doing so by downloading pirate copies!

Immoral or not, one should not lightly dismiss the possibility of it actually being illegal in at least some countries. Like much associated with the internet, the situation is unclear. Off the top of my head, fraud type offences, for instance obtaining a benefit by deception, are arguably applicable, though I have never come across any prosecution in these circumstances. Such a prosecution may well fail, particularly on the question of the benefit and perhaps even on public policy grounds in some countries, but this is far from a foregone conclusion.

Civil action is also a possibility if the seller suffers and can prove actual damage. However, this possibility is more theoretical as it seems such damage would be de minimus so far as any single person is concerned, and the law has, to my knowledge at least, never adopted a "reverse class action" anywhere in the world!

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by DNSB

One difference is that you can give a physical book away or re-sell it under the doctrine of exhaustion for Canadians, right of first sale doctrine for Americans and similar legalese in most other jurisdictions. Most ebooks are licensed under restrictions which preclude transferring the license. A few years back, I asked about downloading an .acsm file and sending that file to another person so the ebook was never actually in my possession. The response was that while not technically violating copyright or license terms since the ebook was never transferred to my computer, I would (somehow) be violating the author's moral rights. I had to admire the response to my query about exactly what constituted a moral right -- Terry Pratchett would have loved it.

And Disney's CEO famously claimed that if I don't watch the commercials, then I'm stealing from Disney. Just because someone asserts something doesn't make it true.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

The second is not entirely accurate. One simply uses the same work around as for the physical work around. Have a friend who lives in the correct location, buy the book for you.

How does one do that without stripping the drm and/or creating/sending a pirated copy?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

How does one do that without stripping the drm and/or creating/sending a pirated copy?

The friend buys the ePub book and receives the ACSM file, which he then forwards to you. You load the ACSM file into your copy of ADE and thus get the DRM-protected book. No DRM stripping, and your friend has never been in possession of the eBook.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by HarryT

The friend buys the ePub book and receives the ACSM file, which he then forwards to you. You load the ACSM file into your copy of ADE and thus get the DRM-protected book. No DRM stripping, and your friend has never been in possession of the eBook.

If that is indeed technically feasible, then I have no moral beef with that. But I get the impression that lying (no quotation marks--it is not an interpretive act) about one's place of residence is the common method people use when thwarting geo-restrictions for ebooks. I believe they even use the euphemism "traveling" to describe the practice.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

If that is indeed technically feasible, then I have no moral beef with that.

I haven't personally tried it, but I can see no reason why it wouldn't work. The book becomes DRM-locked to a particular account when the ACSM file is loaded into ADE, not at the time that the book is bought.

But I get the impression that lying (no quotation marks--it is not an interpretive act) about one's place of residence is the common method people use when thwarting geo-restrictions for ebooks. I believe they even use the euphemism "traveling" to describe the practice.

I agree that that is indeed the usual practice described here.

[Fbone]

Originally Posted by HarryT

The friend buys the ePub book and receives the ACSM file, which he then forwards to you. You load the ACSM file into your copy of ADE and thus get the DRM-protected book. No DRM stripping, and your friend has never been in possession of the eBook.

Can the friend also download the book directly to their device or app in addition to emailing the ACSM file?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Fbone

Can the friend also download the book directly to their device or app in addition to emailing the ACSM file?

No. The ACSM file is essentially a single-user voucher. Whoever loads it first gets the book. If you've downloaded the book, it won't work for your friend, and vice versa.

[Apache]

Originally Posted by DNSB

The response was that while not technically violating copyright or license terms since the ebook was never transferred to my computer, I would (somehow) be violating the author's moral rights. I had to admire the response to my query about exactly what constituted a moral right -- Terry Pratchett would have loved it.

I do not see how this violates the author's moral rights if I am giving the book to a friend as a gift. There isn't any difference between this or buying a book and having it sent directly to said friend.
Apache

[Fbone]

Originally Posted by HarryT

No. The ACSM file is essentially a single-user voucher. Whoever loads it first gets the book. If you've downloaded the book, it won't work for your friend, and vice versa.

I see. The vendor must then remove it from your device's library after redeeming the ACSM file.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Fbone

I see. The vendor must then remove it from your device's library after redeeming the ACSM file.

"Single use" in terms of ADE accounts, that is. You can repeatedly load the file into the same ADE account, but the first use "locks" it to a specific account.

[Fbone]

Originally Posted by HarryT

"Single use" in terms of ADE accounts, that is. You can repeatedly load the file into the same ADE account, but the first use "locks" it to a specific account.

Yes. What I meant was the Google automatically adds all purchases to your Google Books app. But if you then download the ACSM file and redeem, then Google must delete it from the app.

[JSWolf]

The thing nobody is thinking of is that even if we bypass the geo-restrictions to buy the eBook, the author is still getting paid. That's better than going online to try to find the eBook for free.